• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Karma: real or ridiculous?

  • Thread starter Infinite Bubble
  • Start date
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
2,770
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
It may be their nature as you say, but we are not leaving into a jungle (or only in a metaphorical way:threaten:), so that is why strict rules must be enforced in our societies.
If you are evil, one day or another you'll feel guilty. Hitler has committed suicide, even if his own demons were not in touch with reason since a long time.

I must admit I would have killed my ex boss if laws were not they are ;)

I am the 1st one who will raise both hands for much more humanity and freedom.
A society can only feel safe and free with rules that protect it from dangers.

Being for freedom and not giving a damn about justice would be totally senseless.
Karma may also be part of a very idealist philosophy to believe in justice, a diamond into a so disappointing world.:freaked:

ha, who doesn't wanna kill a boss?

Agree with most, but to play devil's advocate,

The bold, not so sure about that. A LOT of serial killers are not sorry. Richard Kuklinski for one, serial killer turned mafia hitman with over 200 murders on his hand, admits in several interviews (can watch on youtube) that he never felt bad. Felt nothing. The ONLY thing he felt bad about was when his family found out and how it hurt them (the guy managed to keep it secret).

And Hitler killed himself because the alternative was to be captured, NOT because of guilt.

Just sayin' :)
 

ceecee

Coolatta® Enjoyer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,908
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
The bold, not so sure about that. A LOT of serial killers are not sorry. Richard Kuklinski for one, serial killer turned mafia hitman with over 200 murders on his hand, admits in several interviews (can watch on youtube) that he never felt bad. Felt nothing. The ONLY thing he felt bad about was when his family found out and how it hurt them (the guy managed to keep it secret).

And Hitler killed himself because the alternative was to be captured, NOT because of guilt.

Just sayin' :)

Very true. I'm not sure why people always think guilt eventually happens. The most studied serial killers also say they never had any guilt and would repeat their actions, if freed.

If there actually was karma and it actually did it's job, you wouldn't see any of these...

521771_273121689490843_627081914_n.jpg
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
1,447
MBTI Type
*NF*
Enneagram
852
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
..........200 murders on his hand, admits in several interviews (can watch on youtube) that he never felt bad. Felt nothing. The ONLY thing he felt bad about was when his family found out and how it hurt them (the guy managed to keep it secret).
And Hitler killed himself because the alternative was to be captured, NOT because of guilt.
Just sayin' :)

That's why I'm for death sentence. Karma or not ! But Egalité Fraternité and all that shit makes people blind and tolerant about things we normally should not discuss of but act on.

I know what you say is fucking true !! But no way, I'm not gonna look at serial killers on youtube(*) ! I must kill my time with Life matters, not those anti-heroes that become heroes

just because of that stupid fact : they can shock HUMAN beings and this suffering is part of their enjoyment, if not what gives them orgasms !:mad:


:doh: (*)I passed the machiavel test (shit test), I'm not a serial killer.
 

sprinkles

Mojibake
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
2,959
MBTI Type
INFJ
Well some people do do bad, very bad naughty things and gain a lot of power, money, and influence. Are they happy? I dunno. But ask a cannibal warlord in Liberia. Such as General Butt Naked and no I'm not joking, that's a real dude in Liberia that slaughtered hundreds of people, including children. I'm not even going to post the shit, as it's too graphic. But the documentary linked is one the most disturbing I've ever seen. The "General" is a preacher now.


My other thought was that perhaps some people are just born evil, or it's just a part of their nature. A lion doesn't get punished for "murdering" defenseless, cute little antelope on a weekly basis, because that's it's nature. Maybe karma escapes some naturally evil people. Sure, a lot get caught and then there's ones that don't that maybe are tortured by their own demons, and some that are A OK with casually lopping off the head of some random pedestrian and never get caught.

And I'm sure some people don't kill because of the SEVERE consequences of getting caught. There may be some higher knowing of what is "Right" and "Wrong" but even then, it would be relative to the situation. Hard to say, interesting discussion.

The fact that wrongdoing is significant at all is because of karma. When people get slaughtered and their families and the world are in despair, that is karma. Cause and effect.

It has nothing to do with bad people getting away with things. It has to do with bad people doing bad things and being able to effect others.

Karma is not punishment tokens and has NOTHING to do with punishment, and very little to do with actual morality, other than if you do bad things somebody is going to be sad. Maybe you'll get away with it. Or maybe because the world is sad, you will be next.

Doesn't do any good to say this though because nobody listens. The fact that people STILL don't know what karma really is should be testament to that.
 

sprinkles

Mojibake
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
2,959
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enlighten us.

Or put another way, let's use your example of the general slaughtering people. Every time the general slaughters a person, that informs the behavior of the world towards the general. Will he be punished? Not necessarily. Does the world treat him differently than if he were a nice man instead? ABSOLUTELY YES.

That is karma by definition.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
2,770
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Or put another way, let's use your example of the general slaughtering people. Every time the general slaughters a person, that informs the behavior of the world towards the general. Will he be punished? Not necessarily. Does the world treat him differently than if he were a nice man instead? ABSOLUTELY YES.

That is karma by definition.

I don't know about the world, but in the documentary, everyone in the Church Congregation loves him. Up there preaching the good word, and the crowd loving it.

So, I'm still not clear. But I'm half asleep.
 

Avocado

Permabanned
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
3,794
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Well some people do do bad, very bad naughty things and gain a lot of power, money, and influence. Are they happy? I dunno. But ask a cannibal warlord in Liberia. Such as General Butt Naked and no I'm not joking, that's a real dude in Liberia that slaughtered hundreds of people, including children. I'm not even going to post the shit, as it's too graphic. But the documentary linked is one the most disturbing I've ever seen. The "General" is a preacher now.


My other thought was that perhaps some people are just born evil, or it's just a part of their nature. A lion doesn't get punished for "murdering" defenseless, cute little antelope on a weekly basis, because that's it's nature. Maybe karma escapes some naturally evil people. Sure, a lot get caught and then there's ones that don't that maybe are tortured by their own demons, and some that are A OK with casually lopping off the head of some random pedestrian and never get caught.

And I'm sure some people don't kill because of the SEVERE consequences of getting caught. There may be some higher knowing of what is "Right" and "Wrong" but even then, it would be relative to the situation. Hard to say, interesting discussion.
I will look at that eventually.
 

Avocado

Permabanned
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
3,794
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Very true. I'm not sure why people always think guilt eventually happens. The most studied serial killers also say they never had any guilt and would repeat their actions, if freed.

If there actually was karma and it actually did it's job, you wouldn't see any of these...

521771_273121689490843_627081914_n.jpg

Exactly.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
2,770
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Or put another way, let's use your example of the general slaughtering people. Every time the general slaughters a person, that informs the behavior of the world towards the general. Will he be punished? Not necessarily. Does the world treat him differently than if he were a nice man instead? ABSOLUTELY YES.

That is karma by definition.

And actually, for someone who is the only person in this thread that knows what it is, you're doing a uh, not good job of explaining it, to put it nicely.

Edit: I can understand it being cause and effect. Everything anyone does affects the universe and the world in some way. Like Causal Determination, the western equivalent.

That is more or less, the dictionary definition. But it's odd to think that someone who does awful things doesn't pay for it. If there's an afterlife or reincarnation, and they're re-born as some shit eating fly over and over for 4,000 years, it would make more sense. But that's not anything anyone can prove.
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
Some theives are never punished, some heroes are killed. We are free agents in a chaos system. There is no force on Earth as of 2014 AD which governs morality other than people, as morality is a human construct. Superstitions such as karma are merely ideologies designed to keep those with control in power.
During the Enlightenment, the light of reason led us away from a world ruled by the church. We must put childish things aside and give love and kindness to each other without expecting a reward.

Yes mate, love and kindness are their own reward.
 

Chthonic

New member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
683
I believe in karma. Only because I absolutely get my arse kicked whenever I do something slightly dodgy. If I was able to get away with it then no way would karma exist. :sage:
 

Riva

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
2,371
Enneagram
7w8
I believe in karma. Only because I absolutely get my arse kicked whenever I do something slightly dodgy. If I was able to get away with it then no way would karma exist. :sage:

I think the greatest spiritual blessing one could have is to feel the short and long term consequences of one's actions. It's only fair because you just want to know the consequnces of your actions.

But sadly such a calculation doesn't exist.
 

Polaris

AKA Nunki
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
2,529
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
451
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
If karma is real, the majority of us are in for a nasty surprise. Just by going to the supermarket and buying meat, you're making yourself a party to a cruel murder. Vegetarians think they're better off, but I doubt lettuce is much more a fan of being eaten than a chicken is.

As far as whether I think karma is real or not, it's evident that our actions do not yield immediate karmic rewards or punishments. If there's room for a little delay, I'd say there's room for endless delay.
 

sprinkles

Mojibake
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
2,959
MBTI Type
INFJ
And actually, for someone who is the only person in this thread that knows what it is, you're doing a uh, not good job of explaining it, to put it nicely.

Edit: I can understand it being cause and effect. Everything anyone does affects the universe and the world in some way. Like Causal Determination, the western equivalent.

That is more or less, the dictionary definition. But it's odd to think that someone who does awful things doesn't pay for it. If there's an afterlife or reincarnation, and they're re-born as some shit eating fly over and over for 4,000 years, it would make more sense. But that's not anything anyone can prove.

That doesn't make sense to me. That is arbitrary and serves no purpose other than revenge, as with most punishment based philosophies.

There's no point to making people suffer in the next life just because they did wrong. What good does it do? It doesn't undo the damage, it's just cruelty and vengefulness. And before anyone says 'deterrent' well how is it a deterrent when everyone thinks it is superstition and throws out the whole idea to begin with?

No. This cosmic score keeping idea is the thing that doesn't make sense.

If karma is real, the majority of us are in for a nasty surprise. Just by going to the supermarket and buying meat, you're making yourself a party to a cruel murder. Vegetarians think they're better off, but I doubt lettuce is much more a fan of being eaten than a chicken is.

As far as whether I think karma is real or not, it's evident that our actions do not yield immediate karmic rewards or punishments. If there's room for a little delay, I'd say there's room for endless delay.

It's not about reward or punishment. Read the thread.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
2,770
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
That doesn't make sense to me. That is arbitrary and serves no purpose other than revenge, as with most punishment based philosophies.

There's no point to making people suffer in the next life just because they did wrong. What good does it do? It doesn't undo the damage, it's just cruelty and vengefulness. And before anyone says 'deterrent' well how is it a deterrent when everyone thinks it is superstition and throws out the whole idea to begin with?

No. This cosmic score keeping idea is the thing that doesn't make sense.



It's not about reward or punishment. Read the thread.

Yessir Mr. Sprinkles. Except the rest of the thread thinks it is crime and punishment, or rather that is coopted definition. Not true to the actual definition, which is basically that actions have reactions and so on. Morality does not seem to fit into it.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
2,770
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Well if that's the case why do my shitty actions seem to have bigger reactions than my nice ones....:dry:

Because you have a conscience and you punish yourself. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with Karma. Probably. Metaphysics is not a provable science, but I personally believe there are moral Laws in the Universe that if violated, True peace is taken from you. It can be regained of course.

According to Deepak Chopra's system, one of those laws deals with Karma.

The Law of Karma: Every action generates a force of energy that returns to us in like kind. Choosing actions that bring happiness and success to others ensures the flow of happiness and success to you.



All 7:



It's a joke to think there are easy answers for a lot of questions raised in this thread. Karma is a bit of a mysterious thing, but I do think it exists.

And btw, there are MANY tenants in Buddhism, but the cornerstone to all of them is daily meditation for at least 30 minutes to an hour or more. And I mention it because it is one of many eastern religions that each have a slightly different definition of Karma.
 
Top