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Freud or Jung?

Freud or Jung?


  • Total voters
    8
G

Ginkgo

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I really dont think either is over rated to be honest, I also would say that Jung would have made out rightly without Freud, there's a lot of theorising by each of them which was happening in parallel.

I find a lot of psychology to be an over-explanation of common sense, which, when contemplated, sometimes creates a counterproductive "sucking" of ones own soul.
 

Lark

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Yup, I am. But he says stuff that sounds like he might be into Freud a lot. I don't know for certain, but it's a hunch I have.

That's odd, his strict liberal, feminist, Australian nationalist schtick wouldnt appear to fit with any Freudianism.
 

Lark

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I find a lot of psychology to be an over-explanation of common sense, which, when contemplated, sometimes creates a counterproductive "sucking" of ones own soul.

Hmm, no, I dont think so. Perhaps some of the more light weight stuff created by Carl Rogers and co. then again that may uncharitable given that those trends need to be understood in context and in contrast to what preceeded them.

There is a difference between most of the psychology and self help or big tent thinkers, whatever you think of Dale Carnegie and Norman Vincent they are certainly not Freud or Jung, in terms of literary value alone, and Freud has been reinvented as a literary theorist much in the way Marx has been, I dont think that's just about book sales.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
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I really dont know how accurate that movie is, really it was Freud that had more controversaries with clients, going so far as to suggest that an entire therapeutic technique be developed as a result of them, the whole sitting behind out of sight of the client on the couch.

I'm not certain either, but I do know that they had a falling out. It was interesting to get insights as to what that falling out might have been about.

That's odd, his strict liberal, feminist, Australian nationalist schtick wouldnt appear to fit with any Freudianism.

You'd be surprised where some Freudian ideas seem to turn up. Some feminists seem to have odd Neo-Freudian theories on the origin of the patriarchy, for instance. Granted, they are often tweaked quite a bit... penis envy becomes womb envy, for instance.

I know that I have heard Victor speak of a "death instinct."



Erich Fromm wrote about this exact thing you've mentioned, attacking the developing "party line" position of some of its leading lights, he thought it mirrored developments among Marxists and other grand theories, without thinking that grand theorising was bad per se.

I think this is the second time you have tried to point me in his direction. I'll start with the wiki article.

I find a lot of psychology to be an over-explanation of common sense, which, when contemplated, sometimes creates a counterproductive "sucking" of ones own soul.

Not for a Ti-dom, it doesn't!
 

Lark

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Jun 21, 2009
Messages
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I'm not certain either, but I do know that they had a falling out. It was interesting to get insights as to what that falling out might have been about.

You'd be surprised where some Freudian ideas seem to turn up. Some feminists seem to have odd Neo-Freudian theories on the origin of the patriarchy, for instance. Granted, they are often tweaked quite a bit... penis envy becomes womb envy, for instance.

I know that I have heard Victor speak of a "death instinct."

I think this is the second time you have tried to point me in his direction. I'll start with the wiki article.

Not for a Ti-dom, it doesn't!

Jung was meant to be the inheritor to Freud's legacy but Freud thought he wasnt orthodox enough in his views, things unravelled from there and differences over atheism vs. theism and occultism were a major factor too, it got pretty bitter, I mean Freud and some of his biggest fans accused Jung of anti-semitism and that's not over yet.

The womb envy thing stems from Karen Horney and it was not a big part of her theory, he wrote a book on feminine psychology which was a sort of deconstruction and literary critique of Freud, she had developed fresh theories from reflection upon her own experience largely but with the insights from Freud and other psychologists, anyway, she simply said that Freud's theory of penis envy was mistaken and used the idea of womb envy to "prove" it. Maybe there's been feminists since, Kate Millet maybe, who have insisted upon the point, there's other feminists who suggest do hold that there's an envy at the heart of patriarchy but they use literary inversions, like the one in the Genesis story in which God makes woman from one of adam's ribs, other than Freud.
 

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,569
I'm not certain either, but I do know that they had a falling out. It was interesting to get insights as to what that falling out might have been about.

You'd be surprised where some Freudian ideas seem to turn up. Some feminists seem to have odd Neo-Freudian theories on the origin of the patriarchy, for instance. Granted, they are often tweaked quite a bit... penis envy becomes womb envy, for instance.

I know that I have heard Victor speak of a "death instinct."

I think this is the second time you have tried to point me in his direction. I'll start with the wiki article.

Not for a Ti-dom, it doesn't!

Jung was meant to be the inheritor to Freud's legacy but Freud thought he wasnt orthodox enough in his views, things unravelled from there and differences over atheism vs. theism and occultism were a major factor too, it got pretty bitter, I mean Freud and some of his biggest fans accused Jung of anti-semitism and that's not over yet.

The womb envy thing stems from Karen Horney and it was not a big part of her theory, he wrote a book on feminine psychology which was a sort of deconstruction and literary critique of Freud, she had developed fresh theories from reflection upon her own experience largely but with the insights from Freud and other psychologists, anyway, she simply said that Freud's theory of penis envy was mistaken and used the idea of womb envy to "prove" it. Maybe there's been feminists since, Kate Millet maybe, who have insisted upon the point, there's other feminists who suggest do hold that there's an envy at the heart of patriarchy but they use literary inversions, like the one in the Genesis story in which God makes woman from one of adam's ribs, other than Freud.
 

21%

You have a choice!
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I only have surface understanding about Freud (and Jung, for that matter), but my impression is that a lot of his ideas are quite outdated. Sexual repression might have had more of an effect on individuals in an extremely sexually repressed society. Still, he's got a lot of great original ideas and basically kick-started everything.

Personally, as much as I know right now I like Jung better -- or, at least the MBTI, because it has been useful in my life.
[MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION] I still have Fromm on my reading list. Let's see if he can convert me :D
 
S

Stansmith

Guest
I can totally see every single thing I do being subconsciously motivated by a desire to reproduce.
 

Typh0n

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I only have surface understanding about Freud (and Jung, for that matter), but my impression is that a lot of his ideas are quite outdated. Sexual repression might have had more of an effect on individuals in an extremely sexually repressed society. Still, he's got a lot of great original ideas and basically kick-started everything.

Yeah, Freud saw sexual repression in everyone he looked at and looked only at white, catholic, males to form his theory. Which is odd. Thats what I meant when I said his method was flawed.

Personally, as much as I know right now I like Jung better -- or, at least the MBTI, because it has been useful in my life.

Jung isnt that same thing as the MBTI. But then again, without Jung, MBTI wouldnt have existed either, just like without Freud, Jung wouldnt have taken the direction he did.
 
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