What characterizes the mindset of loneliness? and how does one change this?

[ygolo]

I am pretty sure loneliness has nothing to do with being alone, but rather feeling alone.

What characterizes this mindset, and how does one change it?

I should add that I have been feeling profoundly lonely for the past month, and have many times in the past felt just as lonely.

I should also add that I've gone and done a lot of things to try to get rid of this loneliness: talking with friends (IRL), trying to deepen relationship with current friends, volunteering, going dancing, playing games, talking with family, chatting with strangers on the internet, I've even gone to clubs and been physically intimate with a woman.

None of this has alleviated the profound sense of loneliness. The only bright spot was when one of my friends called out of the blue to try to cheer me up. She laid on the complements pretty thick, but I know her to be a very sincere person, so I know at least part of her believed what she said.

What is going on?

 

[JivinJeffJones]

Do you hold back a lot of yourself (or your true self, whatever that is) with others? That seems to be one thing that guarantees loneliness.

 

[ygolo]

Do you hold back a lot of yourself (or your true self, whatever that is) with others? That seems to be one thing that guarantees loneliness.

I am not sure. Often, I forget myself when I am with others. If I don't forget myself, I become quite anxious.

 

[Thursday]

Since I've had this feeling for a much of my life, allow me to illustrate. Its something that stays when with people and sometimes removes itself when alone. All and all, it means that you feel peerless. If you have someone who has similar likes and values to talk to and spend time with, then you aren't lonely. But if a vital part of your thoughts and mind aren't piqued and challenged or provoked by another consistently and intelligently, then loneliness is what you have.

 

[Coriolis]

I am pretty sure loneliness has nothing to do with being alone, but rather feeling alone.

What characterizes this mindset, and how does one change it?

I should add that I have been feeling profoundly lonely for the past month, and have many times in the past felt just as lonely.

I should also add that I've gone and done a lot of things to try to get rid of this loneliness: talking with friends (IRL), trying to deepen relationship with current friends, volunteering, going dancing, playing games, talking with family, chatting with strangers on the internet, I've even gone to clubs and been physically intimate with a woman.

None of this has alleviated the profound sense of loneliness.

All your attempts to alleviate loneliness have involved making yourself interact with other people. I suggest you try the opposite, and learn to enjoy your own company more. I would think as an I this would come naturally, or at least not feel like an imposition. Indulge in whatever solitary hobbies or interests you have, whether artistic, athletic, etc. Also use some of this time to reflect on what exactly is unsatisfying about the social encounters you do have. Can you imagine what would have to be different about them for you not to feel lonely when with others? This may help you achieve a better balance between productive socializing, and comfortable, restorative alone time.

Consider also what Thursday writes below. This is an important factor in meeting your deep, inner needs for meaningful connection.

Since I've had this feeling for a much of my life, allow me to illustrate. Its something that stays when with people and sometimes removes itself when alone. All and all, it means that you feel peerless. If you have someone who has similar likes and values to talk to and spend time with, then you aren't lonely. But if a vital part of your thoughts and mind aren't piqued and challenged or provoked by another consistently and intelligently, then loneliness is what you have.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

All your attempts to alleviate loneliness have involved making yourself interact with other people. I suggest you try the opposite, and learn to enjoy your own company more. I would think as an I this would come naturally, or at least not feel like an imposition. Indulge in whatever solitary hobbies or interests you have, whether artistic, athletic, etc. Also use some of this time to reflect on what exactly is unsatisfying about the social encounters you do have.

This. It is entirely capable to be feel lonesome in the middle of a crowd. The solution to lonesomeness is not the quantity of your interactions, but the quality. Becoming more comfortable in your own skin can help improve the quality, I think. Rather than trying to become the things you dislike about people, become the things you like about yourself. Trying to be become the things you dislike will not attract the people you like, unless maybe they're really good at reading who someone "really" is. But I wouldn't bet on that horse.

 

[Mole]

I think the best way to beat loneliness is to find other lonely people. Then, by sharing your company with them, you alleviate their loneliness, and who knows, perhaps your own.

 

[RDF]

[...]The only bright spot was when one of my friends called out of the blue to try to cheer me up. She laid on the complements pretty thick, but I know her to be a very sincere person, so I know at least part of her believed what she said. [...]

It sounds like that particular interaction worked for you because your friend was “mirroring” you: She was demonstrating that she had a good grasp of you and your concerns and that she genuinely connected with you.

If all the rest of your activities leave you dissatisfied, then it may be that you’re not getting “mirrored” properly in the rest of your activities. That is, you participate in social activities, but maybe you don’t necessarily share enough of yourself to really connect with others and feel energized by that connection. Hence JivinJeffJones’s question: Above and beyond merely participating in activities, do you make an effort to share or do you hold back?

Your response to JJJ was that you “forget yourself with others.” That tells me that you participate and find some diversion in your activities with others: You’re diverted enough to get pulled out of your head and forget about yourself for a bit. On the other hand, it doesn’t really answer JJJ’s question. To participate and to be diverted by social activities aren’t necessarily the same things as sharing and connecting with others.

Anyway, here is my input: I think your list of social activities that you’ve participated in lately is great; it’s a good, well-rounded list. But ISFPs can be a bit standoff-ish and shy even when socializing. So if you’re socializing but at the end of the evening you don’t really feel like you’ve connected with others (as reflected in the amount and degree of “mirroring” that you get from others), then you may want to look at your interaction style with people.

If you want to play around with the idea of working on your interaction styles, you can check out the FIRO-B. It’s a test that measures and dissects interaction styles. But I’ll stop here to see if you have any further comments on what’s been discussed so far.

 

[21%]

None of this has alleviated the profound sense of loneliness. The only bright spot was when one of my friends called out of the blue to try to cheer me up. She laid on the complements pretty thick, but I know her to be a very sincere person, so I know at least part of her believed what she said.

Since the bolded made you feel better, could there be something else rather than loneliness? I feel lonely when I feel depressed, when I feel like I can't do anything right. When I feel there is someone who believes in me I tend to feel better, even if it's someone who already loves me, like my SO or family members, whose opinions tend to already be biased. For me, that deep, seemingly incurable kind of loneliness is tied pretty closely to my sense of self-worth.

 

[ygolo]

Since I've had this feeling for a much of my life, allow me to illustrate. Its something that stays when with people and sometimes removes itself when alone. All and all, it means that you feel peerless. If you have someone who has similar likes and values to talk to and spend time with, then you aren't lonely. But if a vital part of your thoughts and mind aren't piqued and challenged or provoked by another consistently and intelligently, then loneliness is what you have.

I think your might be right. But making that statement about myself seems quite self-serving. Like, I was somehow too "special" to be properly challenged consistently and intelligently. I am, for the most part, an average joe. Perhaps slightly more intellectual, and also foreign born. Both those things can be alienating. But neither of those traits are something I can change.

All your attempts to alleviate loneliness have involved making yourself interact with other people. I suggest you try the opposite, and learn to enjoy your own company more. I would think as an I this would come naturally, or at least not feel like an imposition. Indulge in whatever solitary hobbies or interests you have, whether artistic, athletic, etc. Also use some of this time to reflect on what exactly is unsatisfying about the social encounters you do have. Can you imagine what would have to be different about them for you not to feel lonely when with others? This may help you achieve a better balance between productive socializing, and comfortable, restorative alone time.

Consider also what Thursday writes below. This is an important factor in meeting your deep, inner needs for meaningful connection.

I do plenty of things by myself (in fact, I spend more waking hours alone than with people by a 2:1 factor, at least). These solitary things are about as unsatisfying. To be clear, all the things I mentioned were enjoyable in the moment. Some of them really fun. However, no singular event makes me feel lonelier than a drive home after a one-night stand.

This. It is entirely capable to be feel lonesome in the middle of a crowd. The solution to lonesomeness is not the quantity of your interactions, but the quality. Becoming more comfortable in your own skin can help improve the quality, I think. Rather than trying to become the things you dislike about people, become the things you like about yourself. Trying to be become the things you dislike will not attract the people you like, unless maybe they're really good at reading who someone "really" is. But I wouldn't bet on that horse.

I didn't list anything I disliked about other people. I am not sure what you are getting at there. Perhaps, I do need to value myself more. I am not sure if that was what you were trying to say. Could you clarify what you meant?

It sounds like that particular interaction worked for you because your friend was “mirroring” you: She was demonstrating that she had a good grasp of you and your concerns and that she genuinely connected with you.

If all the rest of your activities leave you dissatisfied, then it may be that you’re not getting “mirrored” properly in the rest of your activities. That is, you participate in social activities, but maybe you don’t necessarily share enough of yourself to really connect with others and feel energized by that connection. Hence JivinJeffJones’s question: Above and beyond merely participating in activities, do you make an effort to share or do you hold back?

Like I told JJJ, I am not sure. I really have little introspective recollection of my interactions with others.

Your response to JJJ was that you “forget yourself with others.” That tells me that you participate and find some diversion in your activities with others: You’re diverted enough to get pulled out of your head and forget about yourself for a bit. On the other hand, it doesn’t really answer JJJ’s question. To participate and to be diverted by social activities aren’t necessarily the same things as sharing and connecting with others.

Well, what counts as "sharing" with others? Some of my close friends are quite aware of the way I am feeling (that is why one of them called me when she got back from a trip). But this notion of "holding back" vs. "sharing my true self" doesn't make sense to me. I don't consciously do any regulation of the sort I imagine you mean (perhaps you can clarify). I don't say to myself, "I will hold back", nor do I say to myself "I need to share my true self."

Anyway, here is my input: I think your list of social activities that you’ve participated in lately is great; it’s a good, well-rounded list. But ISFPs can be a bit standoff-ish and shy even when socializing. So if you’re socializing but at the end of the evening you don’t really feel like you’ve connected with others (as reflected in the amount and degree of “mirroring” that you get from others), then you may want to look at your interaction style with people.

If you want to play around with the idea of working on your interaction styles, you can check out the FIRO-B. It’s a test that measures and dissects interaction styles. But I’ll stop here to see if you have any further comments on what’s been discussed so far.

lol, Fineline. I've been on this site since 2008. I am surprised you don't remember me.

I've been an APT member in the past and worked out all my temperament, interaction styles, cognitive functions, enneagram, socionics style, flavor of type, life themes, and on and on... At this point, I am glad that I did it, but mainly because I understand now how little insight one gains through this process (and how much "boxing-in", self-handicapping, and self-stereotyping this process can do as well). I keep "ISFP" just for kicks.

I think the best way to beat loneliness is to find other lonely people. Then, by sharing your company with them, you alleviate their loneliness, and who knows, perhaps your own.

You may be right. Does the internet count?

Since the bolded made you feel better, could there be something else rather than loneliness? I feel lonely when I feel depressed, when I feel like I can't do anything right. When I feel there is someone who believes in me I tend to feel better, even if it's someone who already loves me, like my SO or family members, whose opinions tend to already be biased. For me, that deep, seemingly incurable kind of loneliness is tied pretty closely to my sense of self-worth.

I think self-worth does indeed play a role. But, somehow, I think the cause and effect are backwards. I am afraid my loneliness could eventually lead back to depression.

I don't believe I am in a depressive episode. I did have some bad days. But the persistent emotion has been loneliness--a longing to belong, and longing to find satisfying intimacy. I am not sad. I am not lethargic. I may have some tinges of resentment about the dating scene. But depression seem like a poor description of my state. Loneliness seems to fit quite well, however.

 

[netzealot]

Loneliness has everything to do with being alone. Being misunderstood by those around you is often confused as being alone, however in a very real way people create a condition of loneliness by their mindset so yes, loneliness and certain a frame of mind are closely related.

The condition is deeply rooted in belief, and how much space your beliefs leave for other people to share in your experiences. For instance, your friend said things which you somewhat believe, and in that way you have made space for them and allowed to the same extent the sense of being alone to dissipate.

The behaviors of belief which creates the condition of loneliness and the feeling of being alone because most people misunderstand you are closely related because many times we maintain a requirement that somebody understand us before we make space for them in our lives. Someone who understands others will never feel alone. Loneliness is as common today as the popular suggestion to always look inwardly for answers and, basically, pay more attention to yourself rather than others. The result is mutual isolation and the feeling of loneliness is inevitable.

 

[Mole]

"Lonely" and "Callan"

You may be right. Does the internet count?

Loneliness is emotionally painful. So sometimes we do what we can to avoid the pain. But sometimes it's best to acknowledge the pain. It doesn't make it go away, but it is less likely to contaminate the rest of our life.

Wolves howl with loneliness, sometimes they just whimper on a cold winter's night.

There is a character called, "Lonely", in the TV series, "Callan".

"Lonely", is the epitome of loneliness - we can feel his pain and see how his loneliness has debilitated him.

 

[JivinJeffJones]

Well, what counts as "sharing" with others? Some of my close friends are quite aware of the way I am feeling (that is why one of them called me when she got back from a trip). But this notion of "holding back" vs. "sharing my true self" doesn't make sense to me. I don't consciously do any regulation of the sort I imagine you mean (perhaps you can clarify). I don't say to myself, "I will hold back", nor do I say to myself "I need to share my true self."

I guess an easy example of holding back would be if you significantly tailor how you present yourself depending on who you're talking to. Are you focused mainly on being agreeable to them and on their reactions? Are you, as Fineline put it, doing your best to mirror them? That you forget yourself in these interactions could be read two ways. Either you forget your inhibitions and are completely free in your interactions or you are so aware of the other person/people that it inhibits your consciousness-of-self entirely. Self-expression or self-suppression. If the latter then it certainly doesn't seem conducive to genuine, satisfying connections.

 

[RDF]

lol, Fineline. I've been on this site since 2008. I am surprised you don't remember me.

I've been an APT member in the past and worked out all my temperament, interaction styles, cognitive functions, enneagram, socionics style, flavor of type, life themes, and on and on... At this point, I am glad that I did it, but mainly because I understand now how little insight one gains through this process (and how much "boxing-in", self-handicapping, and self-stereotyping this process can do as well). I keep "ISFP" just for kicks.

I do remember you, and I was surprised that you are identifying as ISFP. But I’m also surprised at how social you’ve become recently. I remembered you in the past as being much less social. So one way or the other, it seems that you’ve loosened up a bit across the years.

Like I told JJJ, I am not sure. I really have little introspective recollection of my interactions with others.


Well, what counts as "sharing" with others? Some of my close friends are quite aware of the way I am feeling (that is why one of them called me when she got back from a trip). But this notion of "holding back" vs. "sharing my true self" doesn't make sense to me. I don't consciously do any regulation of the sort I imagine you mean (perhaps you can clarify). I don't say to myself, "I will hold back", nor do I say to myself "I need to share my true self."

Fine, let’s work with that.

There are lots of ways one could tackle the issue of how to “share more” or “connect better” in social interactions. I already mentioned the FIRO-B; it’s something I’m playing around with myself and finding useful.

The FIRO-B measures whether you’re weak or strong in six different areas of social interaction. See the attached graphic.* The bottom three areas describe more passive types of interaction; the top three areas describe more active types of interaction.



You indicate that you’re not much impressed with test results. Fine, don’t take the test. Just look at the FIRO-B graphic and pick out an area or a couple skills and start working on them in your social interactions with others. That’s basically what I do.

In my case, I tend to have weak-to-moderate skills in the bottom three areas, and pretty much nonexistent skills in the top three areas. So I keep that graphic pinned on a wall in my exercise room. While working out, I read through the checklists of the top three areas and mull over ways I can implement them at an upcoming social interaction.

For example, I read, “Involves others in projects and meetings” or “Shares personal opinions or private feelings about issues,” and it prompts me to think about ongoing projects and interests in my life: Is there anything I can share with people? Even if it’s just talking about the weather or an anecdote of something that happened when I was mowing the lawn. Even if it’s just current events: If I’m interested in something happening in the news, maybe I should broach the subject in conversation; maybe someone else is also interested in the subject.

And that’s it. I just use the graphic as a system of prompts to plan for an upcoming social event. Over time, the prompts stimulate enough ideas that I have to make notes of all the ideas and then review the notes before the event itself.

Without the prompts and notes, I would probably sit like a bump on a log and let others take the lead in the conversation. After reviewing the prompts, on the other hand, I’m reminded to do the little courtesies: For example, take an interest in what others are saying and ask them to expand upon the subject; or compliment them on their accomplishments and share my own accomplishments in turn; and so on.

These are the ways that you “share more” and “connect better.” It’s a struggle at first; maybe you would prefer to start with the easier skills listed in the bottom three areas first. Either way, these are very specific skills and strategies for improving interactions with others.

Think of your friend phoning you and making you feel better. That’s something you could do to others in turn. You could take the lead in forging stronger bonds between yourself and your friends. Just print out the graphic and then take a couple of these skills and start working on them.

Don’t expect immediate results; it’s a long-term project. But it sounds like you’ve been making an effort to get out and socialize more. So maybe this is something you would consider working on next, as a way to “take it to the next level.”

*From “Integrating the FIRO-B with the MBTI” by Eugene R. Schnell and Allen L. Hammer, as reprinted in “Developing Leaders: Research and Applications in Psychological Type and Leadership Development,” edited by Catherine Fitzgerald and Linda K. Kirby.

 

[Coriolis]

For example, I read, “Involves others in projects and meetings” or “Shares personal opinions or private feelings about issues,” and it prompts me to think about ongoing projects and interests in my life: Is there anything I can share with people? Even if it’s just talking about the weather or an anecdote of something that happened when I was mowing the lawn. Even if it’s just current events: If I’m interested in something happening in the news, maybe I should broach the subject in conversation; maybe someone else is also interested in the subject.

And that’s it. I just use the graphic as a system of prompts to plan for an upcoming social event. Over time, the prompts stimulate enough ideas that I have to make notes of all the ideas and then review the notes before the event itself.

This sounds very artificial and mechanical. Sometimes I do find myself in situations where it makes sense to apply such techniques. I always feel fake doing it, though, and find the interactions ultimately empty, even if I agree with the utility of acting this way. I generally try to avoid social situations in which I have to resort to running scripts. On the other hand, I don't complain of loneliness.

 

[ygolo]

Loneliness has everything to do with being alone. Being misunderstood by those around you is often confused as being alone, however in a very real way people create a condition of loneliness by their mindset so yes, loneliness and certain a frame of mind are closely related.

The condition is deeply rooted in belief, and how much space your beliefs leave for other people to share in your experiences. For instance, your friend said things which you somewhat believe, and in that way you have made space for them and allowed to the same extent the sense of being alone to dissipate.

The behaviors of belief which creates the condition of loneliness and the feeling of being alone because most people misunderstand you are closely related because many times we maintain a requirement that somebody understand us before we make space for them in our lives. Someone who understands others will never feel alone. Loneliness is as common today as the popular suggestion to always look inwardly for answers and, basically, pay more attention to yourself rather than others. The result is mutual isolation and the feeling of loneliness is inevitable.

I don't believe I understand. Mainly the part about being misunderstood. Being constantly misunderstood can contribute to lonliness, I am sure. But I am used to clarifying myself. My thoughts and intentions are often misunderstood. But usually, I can get past this.

In what way are you using the word "alone" or the words "making space". Can you clarify?

I actually did not believe the things my friend said. But I knew her to be sincere. So I believed she believed some of what she said. What made me feel good was just hearing her voice at that time, and knowing that she cared about me.

Loneliness is emotionally painful. So sometimes we do what we can to avoid the pain. But sometimes it's best to acknowledge the pain. It doesn't make it go away, but it is less likely to contaminate the rest of our life.

Wolves howl with loneliness, sometimes they just whimper on a cold winter's night.

There is a character called, "Lonely", in the TV series, "Callan".

"Lonely", is the epitome of loneliness - we can feel his pain and see how his loneliness has debilitated him.

Trust me. I acknowledge the pain. I've never see Callan. I may check to see if it is available on Netflix when I get home.

I guess an easy example of holding back would be if you significantly tailor how you present yourself depending on who you're talking to. Are you focused mainly on being agreeable to them and on their reactions? Are you, as Fineline put it, doing your best to mirror them? That you forget yourself in these interactions could be read two ways. Either you forget your inhibitions and are completely free in your interactions or you are so aware of the other person/people that it inhibits your consciousness-of-self entirely. Self-expression or self-suppression. If the latter then it certainly doesn't seem conducive to genuine, satisfying connections.

I don't do any conscious tayloring of how I present myself, unless I actually have a presentation to give. This is usually in a work/school setting, however. I am not focused on anything in particular in most social situations. Most of the time, I just like being there. Uninhibited doesn't seem accurate at all. Neither does self-suppressed. The best I can describe it is an mix of anxiety, and excitement to varying degrees. Like I said, I don't have much of an introspective recollection of these situations.

I do remember you, and I was surprised that you are identifying as ISFP. But I’m also surprised at how social you’ve become recently. I remembered you in the past as being much less social. So one way or the other, it seems that you’ve loosened up a bit across the years.

It's actually not that recent. When I joined this site, I was already in a pretty long depressive episode. So you may have a different image of me because of that. I've come to believe that despite its potential, typology does more damage than good. Perhaps the main way it does good is that it provides another way for people to congregate and get to know each other over a common excuse. So ISFP might as well be XXXX.

Fine, let’s work with that.

There are lots of ways one could tackle the issue of how to “share more” or “connect better” in social interactions. I already mentioned the FIRO-B; it’s something I’m playing around with myself and finding useful.

The FIRO-B measures whether you’re weak or strong in six different areas of social interaction. See the attached graphic.* The bottom three areas describe more passive types of interaction; the top three areas describe more active types of interaction.

View attachment 9837

You indicate that you’re not much impressed with test results. Fine, don’t take the test. Just look at the FIRO-B graphic and pick out an area or a couple skills and start working on them in your social interactions with others. That’s basically what I do.

In my case, I tend to have weak-to-moderate skills in the bottom three areas, and pretty much nonexistent skills in the top three areas. So I keep that graphic pinned on a wall in my exercise room. While working out, I read through the checklists of the top three areas and mull over ways I can implement them at an upcoming social interaction.

For example, I read, “Involves others in projects and meetings” or “Shares personal opinions or private feelings about issues,” and it prompts me to think about ongoing projects and interests in my life: Is there anything I can share with people? Even if it’s just talking about the weather or an anecdote of something that happened when I was mowing the lawn. Even if it’s just current events: If I’m interested in something happening in the news, maybe I should broach the subject in conversation; maybe someone else is also interested in the subject.

And that’s it. I just use the graphic as a system of prompts to plan for an upcoming social event. Over time, the prompts stimulate enough ideas that I have to make notes of all the ideas and then review the notes before the event itself.

Without the prompts and notes, I would probably sit like a bump on a log and let others take the lead in the conversation. After reviewing the prompts, on the other hand, I’m reminded to do the little courtesies: For example, take an interest in what others are saying and ask them to expand upon the subject; or compliment them on their accomplishments and share my own accomplishments in turn; and so on.

These are the ways that you “share more” and “connect better.” It’s a struggle at first; maybe you would prefer to start with the easier skills listed in the bottom three areas first. Either way, these are very specific skills and strategies for improving interactions with others.

Think of your friend phoning you and making you feel better. That’s something you could do to others in turn. You could take the lead in forging stronger bonds between yourself and your friends. Just print out the graphic and then take a couple of these skills and start working on them.

Don’t expect immediate results; it’s a long-term project. But it sounds like you’ve been making an effort to get out and socialize more. So maybe this is something you would consider working on next, as a way to “take it to the next level.”

*From “Integrating the FIRO-B with the MBTI” by Eugene R. Schnell and Allen L. Hammer, as reprinted in “Developing Leaders: Research and Applications in Psychological Type and Leadership Development,” edited by Catherine Fitzgerald and Linda K. Kirby.

I was aware of the FIRO-b, and even did pretty much what you said. All-in-all, growth oriented typology may be less harmful than entity oriented typology. But even there, if the supposed directions of "growth" are based on artifice, the results can be damaging.

This sounds very artificial and mechanical. Sometimes I do find myself in situations where it makes sense to apply such techniques. I always feel fake doing it, though, and find the interactions ultimately empty, even if I agree with the utility of acting this way. I generally try to avoid social situations in which I have to resort to running scripts. On the other hand, I don't complain of loneliness.

Part of me agrees with you. But, unlike you, I do complain of loneliness.

 

[Pinker85]

Pie.

 

[RDF]

It's actually not that recent. When I joined this site, I was already in a pretty long depressive episode. So you may have a different image of me because of that. I've come to believe that despite its potential, typology does more damage than good. Perhaps the main way it does good is that it provides another way for people to congregate and get to know each other over a common excuse. So ISFP might as well be XXXX.

Yeah, I remember when you were in your depressive phase. I’m delighted to see that you’ve shaken that depression phase off or gotten past it or whatever.

As for the positives or negatives of MBTI typology, I won’t comment; that gets argued enough in other threads.

I was aware of the FIRO-b, and even did pretty much what you said. All-in-all, growth oriented typology may be less harmful than entity oriented typology. But even there, if the supposed directions of "growth" are based on artifice, the results can be damaging.

This sounds very artificial and mechanical. Sometimes I do find myself in situations where it makes sense to apply such techniques. I always feel fake doing it, though, and find the interactions ultimately empty, even if I agree with the utility of acting this way. I generally try to avoid social situations in which I have to resort to running scripts. On the other hand, I don't complain of loneliness.

Part of me agrees with you. But, unlike you, I do complain of loneliness.

My usual disclaimer applies: I’m just throwing out some ideas that work for me. If they don’t work for you or you don’t need the help, then ignore the input.

My example of use of the graphic from the FIRO-B is just an example. It’s what works for me, so I throw it out there to let people know that solutions to the problem exist. Naturally, it’s up to each person to find out what particular approach/skill set works best for them.

Let me expand a bit, or clarify a couple points.

1. To me, the essence of this particular exercise is as an “attitude adjustment.” Imagine that you’re at a small gathering of friends hosted by one of your buddies. You sit patiently while your buddy lets people in the door, sets up food and drinks, and makes introductions; then you start to engage in a bit of small talk with some of the other guests. Now stop and imagine that same small gathering of friends, but you’re now the host: You’re the one greeting people at the door, getting people the refreshments they need, making introductions, etc. Same party, same friends, but you’re interacting with the other participants on a whole different level.

2.That’s what the FIRO-B exercise does for me. In moving from the lower 3 categories to the upper 3 categories, I start relating to people in a whole different way: I switch from “guest mode” in my relations with people to “host mode.” Is this transition an antidote for loneliness? Yes it is, at least for me. When I used to attend social events in “guest mode,” I often came away feeling dissatisfied with the event; it was a fight to do small talk, and the connections just weren’t happening most times. Nowadays when I attend events in “host mode,” I often come away pleasantly burnt-out but kind of excited that I’ve connected well with the people around me and gotten to know them. I even take notes afterward so that i can remember to ask people next time I see them how this or that project worked out, etc.

3. Is there artifice involved? Certainly. But that’s the way it is when learning any new skill set. For example, when I first moved into managerial roles, it wasn’t a good fit for me at all. Each day I had to psych myself up for the role, think of how other managers handled things, and consult checklists and management tools for help. But once I did it long enough, I loved the role. The role kind of burned me out by the end of the day, but I loved putting it back on again the next morning and playing that role again day after day. I wouldn’t have gone back to being the low man on the totem pole for anything.

Same with switching from “guest mode” to “host mode.” I love that “host mode.” It still helps me to review the FIRO-B graphic before social events and plan ahead some ideas for interactions and conversation; that is, the “host mode” hasn’t become totally natural to me. But I wouldn’t go back to “guest mode” for anything. Sometimes I get caught in a social situation where I haven’t been able to prepare and where circumstances conspire to keep me stuck in “guest mode”: reactive, passive, and waiting for others to make the first move. At such times I grit my teeth and try to visualize the FIRO-B graphic: I want to get back into “host mode”!

So yeah: Artifice or not, it helps.

4) There are other approaches (other than the FIRO-B graphic, that is) for being exposed to this particular social skill set; for example, one could focus on a particular skill like mirroring and dissect that as a starting point. Also there are other skill sets that can be learned: Just for example, when it comes to dealing with people, Fe and Te users can often achieve much the same result with entirely different skill sets. There is more than one way to skin a cat. So I just want to reiterate:

My example of use of the graphic from the FIRO-B is just an example. It’s what works for me, so I throw it out there to let people know that solutions to the problem exist. Naturally, it’s up to each person to find out what particular approach/skill set works best for them.

 

[Coriolis]

4) There are other approaches (other than the FIRO-B graphic, that is) for being exposed to this particular social skill set; for example, one could focus on a particular skill like mirroring and dissect that as a starting point. Also there are other skill sets that can be learned: Just for example, when it comes to dealing with people, Fe and Te users can often achieve much the same result with entirely different skill sets. There is more than one way to skin a cat. So I just want to reiterate:

My example of use of the graphic from the FIRO-B is just an example. It’s what works for me, so I throw it out there to let people know that solutions to the problem exist. Naturally, it’s up to each person to find out what particular approach/skill set works best for them.

Do these other approaches cover the same basic skill space as the FIRO-B chart you posted? In other words, do you see a basic minimum social skills set that everyone needs to develop, whether using this method or another?

 

[RDF]

Do these other approaches cover the same basic skill space as the FIRO-B chart you posted? [...]

In making those comments, I was just extrapolating from the principle that the rich and successful of the world include all 16 MBTI types. For example: Who has better people-handling skills: the Fe therapist or the Te drill sergeant? There’s more than one way to skin a cat.

A tangent: I lived in open squad-bays for years in the Marines. I had a love-hate relationship with open squad-bays: There was no privacy (hated that), but it was edifying to live cheek-by-jowl with so many different people and see all the different ways they did common things. Give a number of people the same exact same task to do, and they would find a dozen different ways to accomplish it successfully.

One of the most useful things I learned was by watching and imitating the slackers and reprobates in the platoon: They worked quickly and poorly, and did only enough to get by. Time and time again I thought they would fail at the tasks they were assigned, but in the end they slid on by, no worse off than the rest. A light bulb went on in my head. I quit my perfectionist ways and instantly achieved greater productivity.

[...] In other words, do you see a basic minimum social skills set that everyone needs to develop, whether using this method or another?

I’m not aware of any standardized list of that nature. I supposed it depends on how one defines “basic minimum social skills.” FIRO-B is actually workplace/management-oriented; mainly I like that FIRO-B graphic for its conciseness.

I suppose that one could make up a list of the cognitive functions that are tested for in EQ tests or something along that line. Anyway, it’s an interesting thought.

Along the same line, the following website is interesting: http://www.firstimpressionsconsulting.com/pages/booktables.html

It divides social skills into seven headings; then under each heading it provides two tables of individual social skills: One table is for positive manifestations of skills, and the second table is for negative manifestations of skills, i.e., where the skill is done in excess or too sparingly.

For example, under Heading 2 “Showing Interest,” the subject of “Asking questions” appears as both a positive behavior and a negative behavior. In the positive table: If you ask questions of your conversational partner, you will appear interested and attracted by the other person. By contrast, in the negative table: If you hold the floor by asking too many questions, you will probably think that you’re appearing interested and attracted, but in fact the other person will probably be perceiving you as private and controlling.

And so on.

It's an interesting site, and worth poking around. But it’s hardly “basic or minimum”; instead it’s kind of comprehensive and exhaustive.