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Let's assume for a second that there is an intelligence that created the universe

prplchknz

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who/what created that, and is it possible to create something from nothing, because if you think about it you can go ad infintum. So please no arguments whether or not God exists, I don't give a crap about that for this purpose. I'm just curious if you think it's possible that God has a creator, or if he is the end all beyond, and we're just low on a ladder of hierachy of existence and planes and god though we see him as supreme being is also not that far up on the hierachy where does it end?
 
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I'm just curious if you think it's possible that God has a creator

one possibility i've seen put forth in the psat:
consider that an entity built by a civilization much like our own reaches supreme intelligence levels in a universe much like our own. that entity, originating from a social creature (well, social enough to have a civilization), would very much like finding out what other entities like itself might thinks, so it might socialize and get the occasional cybering. one possible solution for that is to send messages everywhere and see if anyone answers, and it might just do that. but while it waits, those messages are going out in light speed, which in the great scheme of things is really fucking slow, and it has no idea if it will ever get an answer.
so in the meantime, or perhaps as a safer alternative, it thinks and realizes it's goal was to find entities like itself, meaning it doesn't have to be entities that are actually out there, it could also be entities which might be there.
so it starts running a lot of simulations of the universe and trying out different civilizations that might end up building different kind of entities, because on this level creating imaginary friends can very well be faster than finding them. now, let's say their are other entities who are doing the same thing. that means that in this universe which is much like our own there are many other universe's. in fact this can happen in any number of universes, which mean that for every universe there are many other universes within it (possibly within the simulated universes). meaning there are more virtual universes than genuine ones, and if you don't know in which kind you are, there's a better chance that you are in a virtual one then that you are in a real one. a virtual universe - meaning that some entity created it, and quite possibly some entity created the universe that gave rise to that entity that created your universe, and so on and so forth.
 

prplchknz

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one possibility i've seen put forth in the psat:
consider that an entity built by a civilization much like our own reaches supreme intelligence levels in a universe much like our own. that entity, originating from a social creature (well, social enough to have a civilization), would very much like finding out what other entities like itself might thinks, so it might socialize and get the occasional cybering. one possible solution for that is to send messages everywhere and see if anyone answers, and it might just do that. but while it waits, those messages are going out in light speed, which in the great scheme of things is really fucking slow, and it has no idea if it will ever get an answer.
so in the meantime, or perhaps as a safer alternative, it thinks and realizes it's goal was to find entities like itself, meaning it doesn't have to be entities that are actually out there, it could also be entities which might be there.
so it starts running a lot of simulations of the universe and trying out different civilizations that might end up building different kind of entities, because on this level creating imaginary friends can very well be faster than finding them. now, let's say their are other entities who are doing the same thing. that means that in this universe which is much like our own there are many other universe's. in fact this can happen in any number of universes, which mean that for every universe there are many other universes within it (possibly within the simulated universes). meaning there are more virtual universes than genuine ones, and if you don't know in which kind you are, there's a better chance that you are in a virtual one then that you are in a real one. a virtual universe - meaning that some entity created it, and quite possibly some entity created the universe that gave rise to that entity that created your universe, and so on and so forth.

this is exactly how i feel when i play the sims
 

Lady_X

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this is the big unanswerable question isn't it...i mean...how can something just be?
 

Mole

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Being and Time

this is the big unanswerable question isn't it...i mean...how can something just be?

A totally fascinating question, first asked by the Ancient Greeks and later addressed by Martin Heidegger in his book, "Being and Time".
 

prplchknz

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this is the big unanswerable question isn't it...i mean...how can something just be?

yeah, i suppose so. but people also try to prove the existence of god/no existence of god, which at this point can't be proven nor disproven, that's why it's called faith
 

sarek

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I think you can create something out of nothing provided the sum of all somethings which you create, add up to nothing.

This requirement does not only extend to matter and energy, but also to time. If you create time, you need to compensate with an equal amount of anti time.
 

RaptorWizard

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I don't think we have the ability to completely 'visualize' the higher levels, but we have little clues here and there in the world of our own that can kind of guide our ascension to whatever comes next. Some theorize how advanced civilizations may already be in contact with some of these places, like in the negative matter or etheric realm of existence and such. If we want to grow enough to reach that point however, we must realize that our quest starts here.

Terence McKenna - Aliens and Archetypes
 

Lady_X

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all i know is that our universe is made up of about 96% dark matter and no one knows what the hell that is.
 

Lady_X

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I don't think we have the ability to completely 'visualize' the higher levels, but we have little clues here and there in the world of our own that can kind of guide our ascension to whatever comes next. Some theorize how advanced civilizations may already be in contact with some of these places, like in the negative matter or etheric realm of existence and such. If we want to grow enough to reach that point however, we must realize that our quest starts here.

Terence McKenna - Aliens and Archetypes

yeah...to me...it makes sense that we just lack the intellectual/ physical ability to perceive the "truth"

like...we can't even see all the colors in the spectrum....

we're limited...most of us... to 5 senses.

etc
 

Lark

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who/what created that, and is it possible to create something from nothing, because if you think about it you can go ad infintum. So please no arguments whether or not God exists, I don't give a crap about that for this purpose. I'm just curious if you think it's possible that God has a creator, or if he is the end all beyond, and we're just low on a ladder of hierachy of existence and planes and god though we see him as supreme being is also not that far up on the hierachy where does it end?

Yeah, the be all and end all.
 

Fluffywolf

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*starts rambling*

Time is a concept. It has not beginning, it has no end.

Space is infinite, not just in size, but also in concepts such as time.

Both those statements are relatively easy to understand and even if we do not posess the means to prove either, they seem irrefutable logic statements.

Matter and energy are the odd balls. Even if both above statements are true, it does not explain matter and energy. There'd just be an infinite space existing infinitely.

But there's the catch, can infinite space exist without anything in it? An infinite true vaccuum? It is illogical. If there is no form of matter or energy to support the infinite structure of space, logic would assume that space would collapse in on itself, and that is yet another paradox, because space is infinite and it cannot collapse for that would assume there is something outside of space. But there isn't, because there can't be anything beyond something that is already infinite.

If there was a big bang, it also makes you wonder. What factor decided the location of the big bang. Considering that there is a center in our known universe (which is basicly semi proven from the fact constallations drift apart from one and other), it goes against the thought of space being infinite. In infinity, there is no center.

If mass and energy are the inevitable result to prevent the impossibility of space collapsing in on itself, a single particle with infinitely reducing but never hitting 0 magnetic influence would be enough to support the infinite structure of space, yet we have millions of stars. Matter and energy are abundant, but neither infinite or simplistic in nature.

A mystery indeed.

Even if the known universe was created by intelligent design. That intelligent design had to be created as well, there has to be a beginning somewhere.

But we know that there are no beginnings when it comes to infinity. And even though infinite space must always exist (as it is infinite), it is logical to assume it can not exist without substance. Therefor matter or energy must be infinite, even though we know it not to be.

The best explanation I personally can come up with is a lack of dimensional perception.

This leaves the question open to millions of possibilities. Perhaps the universe moves in a circular fashion, and we have all existed an infinite times before and will exist infinite times more in the future in other creations of our known universe. Or whatever you can come up with.


So, if I was to assume that intelligent life created the universe. I automatically assume that the same conundrum we find ourselves in, also applies to said intelligent life.

*stops rambling*
 

Mole

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The Intelligent Predator

The only intelligent life we know has been selected by nature.

And nature has selected a predator.

So we might assume that if there is an intelligence that created the universe, they are a predator like us.

After all, we are created in the image and likeness of God, and we are predators.
 
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