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Calling all Muslims: I am considering becoming Muslim

Lexicon

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Mal12345

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Was merely pointing out that things of a sexual nature this member expressed morals against are just as prominent in Dubai as anyplace else- there's no "escaping" it. Just an offhand comment. I wasn't referring to Muslim gangs sexually assaulting children, though. /shrug

Ok, here's my real take on the OP beyond the thought of her naked bum.

Christians are not presently committing great crimes against humanity. To consider joining a Christian church is therefore not to sanction evil. Of course they will point out that Christians - at one time - caused the death of 2000 heretics. It was called the Crusades. But that was over a long period of time 500 years ago, and it was nothing like 3000 people dead in a single act of carnage.
 

kyuuei

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She could also become Amish, and remain Christian.

There are ways to get the more ascetic, structured form of religion she seems to desperately want without this more extreme conversion.

Yes, precisely, this is my point. Convert to what your heart is calling you to be--not what looks good from the outside. Work your way into a religion. There's many subtle aspects of religion that wears on a person when they convert, it's not a good idea to make a drastic change without having extensively experienced things from an outsider working in.

The scripts and what people do are two different things. Christianity is a beautiful religion, and it's created beautiful lives out of people who would have otherwise pissed them away. But that doesn't mean people are all reading things and thinking the same way. Christians have extremists just like any other religion.

A religion should call to you. Nothing but the scripts should make you decide what is right for you. No amount of good people, bad people, extremists, or apathetic followers should sway the decision. What you feel is true in your heart is all that matters--everything else can be fixed with adjustment, patience, and active searching.

I actually agree with you on that. I feel like Muslims are more respectful towards women. But I will say that I don't think Iraqi men treat women like dirt anymore than many other Muslims. I was there for a year.

Thanks for the rest of the advice. That's true.

No no. Islam is very respectful towards women. Muslims tend to not be. At least, not in the modern, feminist sense of things. If they followed scripture more closely, they would definitely be one of the kinder religions for women. Muslim women are some of the most patient people I've ever come across. I have no idea how they deal with that sort of thing. I'd have high tailed it long ago, and left the men throwing their dickbeaters at each other instead of me.

Holy crap, are you kidding me. (also, good call, [MENTION=6164]Riva[/MENTION])

In that case, absolutely never assume that a man who has the power to get away with having other wives wouldn't go for it just because he once said so. That's not how things work.

Yeah.. I had a conversation with some Djibs about why they marry multiple women. They said that Islam law states that divorce is so severe that it's just easier to re-marry, or multi-marry, than to divorce and marry a whole new person.
 

Newbyagain

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No no. Islam is very respectful towards women. Muslims tend to not be. At least, not in the modern, feminist sense of things. If they followed scripture more closely, they would definitely be one of the kinder religions for women. Muslim women are some of the most patient people I've ever come across. I have no idea how they deal with that sort of thing. I'd have high tailed it long ago, and left the men throwing their dickbeaters at each other instead of me.

Thank you for your advice. I will disagree that taking a more matriarchal role or covering your hair is abusive if that is what you are referring to, but to each is their own. I just think you need to know that many women want to.
 

Newbyagain

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Ok, here's my real take on the OP beyond the thought of her naked bum.

Christians are not presently committing great crimes against humanity. To consider joining a Christian church is therefore not to sanction evil. Of course they will point out that Christians - at one time - caused the death of 2000 heretics. It was called the Crusades. But that was over a long period of time 500 years ago, and it was nothing like 3000 people dead in a single act of carnage.

No sin is any better or worse than another. I don't see killing any worse than being alive yet numb and dead at the same time. For example, I don't see your apparently sexually offensive treatment any better or worse. Sexual offense, language, assault; it all adds up and fuels each other.
 

Mal12345

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No sin is any better or worse than another. I don't see killing any worse than being alive yet numb and dead at the same time. For example, I don't see your apparently sexually offensive treatment any better or worse. Sexual offense, language, assault; it all adds up and fuels each other.

Wow, just wow....
 

Newbyagain

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Pretty sure some members here posted pics of prostitutes just hanging out around Dubai.

Sex sells, kiddo. Everywhere. :wink:

Jokes aside, I'll reply to your 1st post:

Sure we're social creatures, but what's the point of externalizing yourself to this degree? Stay true to what you believe. You apparently didn't have much of an issue with your faith until you saw people claiming to hold the same convictions act hypocritically. To allow the deeds of others to shake your convictions seems rather weak-minded, imo. I'm not trying to insult you- I just figure if you hold on even still to elements of your Christianity, your heart's trying to tell you something.

Honestly, I think it's better to be authentic to your own beliefs- even at the cost of not feeling a sense of "community" amongst your peers, than to question them because others don't practice what they preach. It just sounds fearful, needy, and jaded. If it matters enough to you to truly walk with your God, then your peers shouldn't matter to the degree you question your core beliefs, should they..? I mean, you haven't even read the Quran, but you're willing to convert already just because it looks like others are getting a lot out of it because they behave a particular way you like? Doesn't seem like you're thinking for yourself, at all. And like I said, if you're still holding on to your beliefs about Christ being the son of God.. then maybe your "self" - your "soul" - is trying to tell you something.

Note, that I'm athiest, but I'm respectful of [and have a fair grasp on various] religious people's belief systems.. providing they actually are thinking for themselves, not seeking a herd to follow just to avoid the pain of being alone. Something so deeply important as your faith, your purpose in life & the destiny of your infinite soul shouldn't rely on the actions of others, should it?

Whatever you choose, I wish you luck, & I hope you find whatever you seek in the end- within yourself.

So because somebody here posts pics of supposed prostitutes in Dubai, that makes the case that the sex in Dubai is just as common or more common in the U.S.?

I am not switching religions out of fear. I am considering doing it, because I know I am healthier when I have people of the same goals and understanding as me. Like you said, we are social creatures.
 

Newbyagain

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Why?

I'm just witnessing scenes of common, daily life there. It's not a big deal, it's common knowledge. When I discuss with my muslim friends, everybody acknowledges it -mostly because they want to change this!-...

Exactly, it's no big deal to them because they are used to that being at that level, in their environment and the people who are not happy with it are wanting change.
 

Mal12345

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No sin is any better or worse than another. I don't see killing any worse than being alive yet numb and dead at the same time. For example, I don't see your apparently sexually offensive treatment any better or worse. Sexual offense, language, assault; it all adds up and fuels each other.

Ok, I am now over being stunned by your belief in what is in fact a CHRISTIAN tenet that all sins are the same.

Now I will leave you with a couple quotes I found online from Muslims:

"If all sins were the same then there would be only one level of Hell and we know that this is not the case."

"There are different types and degrees of sins.
Minor sins.
Major sins.
Sins that take one out of the fold of Islam.
Sins that are punishable by the Islamic government."

So in order to avoid conflict with your fundamental Christian beliefs, I recommend NOT becoming a Muslim.
 

Lexicon

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So because somebody here posts pics of supposed prostitutes in Dubai, that makes the case that the sex in Dubai is just as common or more common in the U.S.?

From what I've heard from a few residents there, yes. But I was making a joke, really. I don't care enough about the sex industry one way or the other to really pay that much attention to it.

I am not switching religions out of fear. I am considering doing it, because I know I am healthier when I have people of the same goals and understanding as me. Like you said, we are social creatures.

I think it's definitely good to have support from those around you, & I hope you find that. I mentioned the element of fear involved because you sounded quite desperate in your first post. Desperation is a fearful response.

Either way, good luck in your search.

:drwho:
 

Newbyagain

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Between your two replies to me, I don't know how else to say this but... you seem very ignorant about religion in general. Only certain branches of the Protestant church encourage this very individual interpretation of the Bible, and you could become Catholic if you want a very theological and historic and guided interpretation of the Bible (honestly in some cases I think this is more relevant, myself).

You're saying you want "rules" but you don't want to go live on an Amish farm.

On the other hand, you're saying you don't know much about Islam, either.

I'm not sure if you're trolling, but Catholicism is a less individual interpretation of Christianity, and being Hare Krisha or Amish would be more regimented and community oriented forms of faith that are relatively peaceful; Amish women also dress modestly and cover their heads like many Muslim women do.

It doesn't make sense for you to be Muslim if you don't even understand their theology but are just attracted to the strictness or community, which you can indeed find in some Christian churches.

There are still Catholic women who cover their heads to pray.

Also, you should know that there are both Sunni and Shi'ite Muslims, as well as the large difference between the violent misogynist interpretations of Islam in Afghanistan versus peaceful Islam in Malaysia or Morocco.

I am familiar enough with both Islam and the Amish to know Amish isn't a good fit for me. What is so hard to understand about that? Yes I like rules, did I say that that means I agree with the Amish rules?

I am already Lutheran. Catholic and Lutheran are not much different.
 

Newbyagain

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People are people the world over. Don't expect anyone to take you in and nestle you in some safe warm community just because they're Muslim. It's more likely that you'll pray together on Fridays (or more frequently if that's what floats your boat) and get to know a few people in a more informal context (like you would in a bible study group) and that's about it. There might be some communities that are more close knit than others, but I see no indications that Muslim communities, on average, are tighter than Christian communities.

Then again, I have never participated deeply or wanted to participate in a religious community so my observations are all from the outside.

I don't necessarily want something too close knit. That is not my concern as much as other things. But thank you.
 

Mal12345

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Between your two replies to me, I don't know how else to say this but... you seem very ignorant about religion in general. Only certain branches of the Protestant church encourage this very individual interpretation of the Bible, and you could become Catholic if you want a very theological and historic and guided interpretation of the Bible (honestly in some cases I think this is more relevant, myself).

You're saying you want "rules" but you don't want to go live on an Amish farm.

On the other hand, you're saying you don't know much about Islam, either.

I'm not sure if you're trolling, but Catholicism is a less individual interpretation of Christianity, and being Hare Krisha or Amish would be more regimented and community oriented forms of faith that are relatively peaceful; Amish women also dress modestly and cover their heads like many Muslim women do.

It doesn't make sense for you to be Muslim if you don't even understand their theology but are just attracted to the strictness or community, which you can indeed find in some Christian churches.

There are still Catholic women who cover their heads to pray.

Also, you should know that there are both Sunni and Shi'ite Muslims, as well as the large difference between the violent misogynist interpretations of Islam in Afghanistan versus peaceful Islam in Malaysia or Morocco.

You're much better at discussing religions and race than you are at typology.

A recent study has shown that Christians are FAR more likely to visit their sick relatives and neighbors than Muslims. Christianity is such a highly social, benevolent religion. I really admire it. I just don't want to be part of it because all religions are false.
 

Newbyagain

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None of this is more ridiculous than someone who says they believe Jesus is the Son of God and the Holy Redeemer and admits ignorance about Muslim theology saying they want to convert to Islam for the rules and community.

I am baffled why you wouldn't look to Catholicism first, and then if ruling that out as not a strict enough community for you, not looking to a very insular Christian community like the Mennonites (Amish).

All Muslims are not the same any more than all Christians are the same. There are interpretations there too, and frankly if you're actually doing this to worship God, you should do it because of a theology you are familiar and comfortable with or that resonates with your soul (kind of like what Kyuuei said about the holy book speaking to you) ...not because it looks super regimented or like a tighter knit community.

It's one step at a time. I didn't say that tomorrow I am going to get in my car and drive over and get converted. The Catholic community has many of the same problems I see in any other Christian community.
 

Newbyagain

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This is the crux of your issue and the answer will not be found by asking another person; this shouldn't be left for another person to answer anyway.

It is a leap of faith and will always be as such.

True. Thank you. Finally. It would be better if people wouldn't assume and act like they know the answer and all of these other assumptions and stereotypes. I think I need to read the Bible again with this new question of mine and go from there.
 

Mal12345

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True. Thank you. Finally. It would be better if people wouldn't assume and act like they know the answer and all of these other assumptions and stereotypes. I think I need to read the Bible again with this new question of mine and go from there.

For instance, your assumption that Islam believes all sins are the same?
 

Newbyagain

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You'd get away from all the stuff you're complaining about also if you lived with the Amish. No strip clubs there.

Or if you became Catholic, and decided against marriage, you could go to a convent and also be separate from the world.

Thanks. That is a good idea. The only thing is, I don't feel like I could live in a convent and give myself away to a religion who I feel is ultimately not as successful as I think they could be.
 

Mal12345

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Thanks. That is a good idea. The only thing is, I don't feel like I could live in a convent and give myself away to a religion who I feel is ultimately not as successful as I think they could be.

All levels of sin and success are the same in the eyes of God.
 

Newbyagain

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Community and fellowship are important aspects to one's spiritual life, in part because it's an important part of human nature. Man is a social animal, and after the commandant Love God comes the commandant Love thy neighbor. So your concern is legitimate, yet your proposed solution to the issue may not be. Changing religions maybe a valid option if God is truly calling you to that path. If he isn't, then perhaps it's not for you. You still seem to think of Christ as the Incarnated Son of God, in other words the Christian understanding of Christ's nature. So you possibly already given indications of where your heart truly lies, you just want a sense of fellowship to be apart of. Fair enough, but you can certainly find plenty of community within Christianity if you truly look for it. You don't need to convert to Islam to necessarily find it.

Open your heart to God and trust his guidance. He knows best.

I appreciate your answer and you are right. But also reading Curan and taking a different eye to the Bible, I may find a more solid answer in one belief over another. Maybe it will be Christ is the son of God, and maybe it will be that he is not.

But like I said, it's not just community. It's the level of expectations in the community. For example, I go to a Christian school and some of the professors who claim to be hard core Lutherans, it just shocks me what they do. It's extremely frustrating. It's not even that I expect them to be perfect, it's just that it's like a lot of wrong things that they do, it has never even occurred to them that they shouldn't.
 
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