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  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Making an effort can be enjoyable, I imagine "effortless" hobbies and jobs would be no fun at all. The problem is when you have to put so much effort into things you don't even enjoy just to survive you end up having no time or effort left for the things you do enjoy.

    I can imagine putting effort into conventional respectable things like education, a career, building wealth, leading/managing people etc. would be deeply satisfying for an ENTJ. As they have the opposite of my preferences in some ways I envy ENTJs, it feels like the whole world is laid out for them.
    It is dude

    Great post, really put things pretty succinctly
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  2. #12


    living is cheating if you're not pulling oars

  3. #13
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    INFj None


    I dunno. I am not wired to work for the sake of working. If something needs done, then it's got to be done. If a little extra labor provides a better product or experience, then that can be worth it, but just working to work doesn't make sense to me. I've got family like that and they do have more or better stuff than me, but they don't really seem any happier. They seem stressed out.

    My uncle, for example, is nearly seventy and had heart surgery earlier this year. My mom cleans for him and he told her one day that he was feeling tired, so she suggested he take a nap. He said he wished he could. He is retired, he's not short on money at all, but he's got to mow the grass on several properties, including his horse farm. The grass is not going anywhere and even if it was he could pay someone to cut it, but he won't take a nap when he's tired because he's got to mow the grass. What is the point of being retired and rich if you can't take a nap when you want to? Makes no sense to me.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  4. #14


    what do you mean by effortless?

    is this about roombas? because roombas are awesome.

  5. #15
    Unapologetic being Evo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    1w9 sp/sx
    ESI Fi


    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    The simple truth of the matter here is that you don't want to know the answer. You don't want to know the answer because it will mean you're out of control. To you, effort equals a future. If you or others didn't spend effort, things would be completely out of control, anything could happen to you and the world, and that is scary.

    To me, though, it is absolutely the embrace of change and the enjoyment of existence. To me, anyone who asks this question is in a river paddling upstream, working harder and harder as they get older to stay in the exact same spot, while the experience of floating pleasantly downriver is waiting to be had.

    So I'll answer the questions, but keep in mind that you probably won't like the answers.

    That is quite false. Many poor people in third world countries do live the effortless life, and there is nothing wrong with that. Travelers visit these people and speak of children who don't even have shoes being the happiest people they have ever seen. Understand that "effortless" does not mean "not lifting a finger" but more like "natural." The human body does not want to sit around and sleep all day. It wants to be a part of the life around it. People take pleasure and simple joy in the acts living, and they are a lot less lonely than they are in the 1st world because they aren't constantly trying to rise above everyone else.

    This can happen anywhere, though. It can easily happen in America, but society doesn't encourage it. In America we are taught from a young age that we MUST do well in school or our lives will go poorly. If we get bad grades in school, teachers and parents get angry at us and say we aren't doing enough and try to whip us into shape. It is unacceptable to relax and enjoy oneself in a public school.

    I could go on for years about this.

    This is a misconception. You see, that is effort. It is desperate effort. To expend no effort would be to let yourself get exactly as sad as you feel, and for most people, that is terrifyingly sad. This is because they have spent their lives putting it off, letting it all build up. To accept sadness would mean the necessity for change, but having come this far, people believe it is too late to change. They might HATE their job, but they still try to have a positive attitude for years while it gets worse and worse. If they actually accepted their hatred for their job, they would have to face the fact that a life of misery is simply not worth living, and would either have to quit or kill themselves.

    There are people out there who basically live in a permanent state of vacation, worrylessness. They see absolutely no need to "get anything done" and they just do what they enjoy doing pretty much all the time. That may even include things like working out or going to a job. The essential element is the worryless state of mind. When you are relaxed, around people, and having a good time, it is often fun to work.

    Achievement for who? You? Your parents? Society?

    Why? Because you feel guilty? Because you need to be able to pat yourself on the back for something? Because you have to be a good boy or people might wonder about you?

    Rest assured, even if you're a good boy, no one is going to care in 5-10 years. Your accomplishments will be erased. Don't even pretend that you might have made the world a better place. First, maybe you didn't. Maybe things you couldn't have expected happened and your accomplishments actually led to something terrible. Even if not, do you realize how insignificant you are in time and the universe? Even if you become the president, you are literally like an atom on a grain of sand.

    It doesn't matter. It really. Doesn't. Matter. This is all for you. This life is only here for you to enjoy while it lasts, and it is constantly disappearing before your eyes, gone forever. Your experience will pass. You will die, and then it won't matter. It won't matter if you spent your life worrying and straining and fighting and depressed. It won't matter if you let go, allowed yourself to enjoy it, but were a failure. It won't even matter if you enjoyed it and had all sorts of success.

    If you want to know how, look no further than young children. Young children love to run around and play, imagine wild things, pretend, and dream. They love to learn. No one has to force them to take lessons to learn to walk. They just learn. They don't have to scold themselves when they aren't learning how to talk as quick as they would like. They just do it because it is fun, joyful. That beautiful process does not need to stop, we are at fault for stopping it. Once the child learns to talk and understand adults, now they can be told what to do and they have to listen, and this is when things go wrong, when people begin to need certain outcomes and start to strain themselves. They wanna beat the pack. They can't let themselves fall behind. They can't miss out.

    So they slowly become "responsible adults" who carry the world on their shoulders. If they let go, they are terrified of what would happen, never stopping to remember that this is all just a passing experience, in the end not important, nothing to take too seriously.

    This is available to everyone at all times. 99 percent, though, are too scared to let their misery go. What would happen to me if I didn't get an A on this next test? What would happen to me if I just quit my job for a stupid reason like not liking it? What would my friends and family do if I stopped being there for them even when I didn't want to?

    Some people try it for a while, get impatient, and go back to straining. Rest assured, the process will take some time to happen. Most people will only truly let go when their life of strain has become so utterly miserable that they realize it is not worth living that way, and collapse into a deep depression. I have done this myself, and let me tell you, the depression was indescribable - worse than anything I could have possibly imagined. But then it ends, and I don't care anymore. I honestly don't even know if it is fully over yet, but I absolutely do not regret a single thing I have done. My old life was no longer worth living. To strain is to accept mediocrity. I have taken a stand. I have said, I want the happiness I know I deserve, and I will not be fooled into grasping for a future version of it that never comes.
    woah, it's like you're reading my mind. You've pretty much summed it up here. lol

    The only difference I have is that I think everything matters.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner

  6. #16


    I'd ideally get to the point where I can 'effortlessly' meet my basic needs (e.g. building a 'self-sustaining' system). I'd then use that as a root from which I can branch out (e.g. into uncomfortable areas) and challenge myself. Blammo; personal growth without the risk of a lack of foundation.

  7. #17


    really, i am trying to understand the question here...

    @Lark - what exactly is meant by effortless living?

    paying less into the grid with your own vertical vegetable garden & solar panels while pirating all your media and e-books? having a roomba cleaning your carpet while your dishwasher does it's thing? buying food with coupons? living on welfare? living in a nursing home?

  8. #18


    I'm always amazed at the morality often attached to effort, the exerting it is virtuous and the lack of it a sin of some kind. But effort is a destructive force when its a pointless struggle for the sake of it, which if most first world lives are anything to go by, it is. Effortless living is about giving up that pointless struggle not the doing of nothing. Its about exerting effort where it is joyful to do so and accepting those things we cannot change by effort. First world affluence is the harbinger of many kinds of stress related diseases, a simpler life would cure a lot of it. We struggle for money so we can be in debt and have stuff that makes us happy. We could just go for the happiness of putting our effort where its enjoyable and cut out the whole money and debt from the equation. Before branding this school of though laziness, why not actually read the books first to find out the premise rather than just the title.

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