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Sixth Grader Demolishes Christian in a Debate

Mal12345

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Christian asserts the premise that in order to know anything with certainty you have to know everything.

Sixth grader asks: So in order to know that God exists you have to know everything?

Christian stutters uncertainly, and then repeats the original premise as if the sixth grader didn't understand it.


 

kyuuei

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The Christian makes a lot of sense. Even science is based on theories, suggestions, predispositions, and potentials. We are rarely certain of anything. Mathematics I would argue is the most certain of all the STEM fields. When we're being taught, as children, that 2+2=4, we are taught that that is an absolute. It is 100% correct. Questioning it will only lead you back to 2+2=4.

No proof of something does not mean it does not exist. If I had no proof that viruses caused illness back in an age where people thought cold weather caused it, it would not mean I was wrong. I only lacked the ability to prove it at the time.
 

Mal12345

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The Christian makes a lot of sense. Even science is based on theories, suggestions, predispositions, and potentials. We are rarely certain of anything. Mathematics I would argue is the most certain of all the STEM fields. When we're being taught, as children, that 2+2=4, we are taught that that is an absolute. It is 100% correct. Questioning it will only lead you back to 2+2=4.

No proof of something does not mean it does not exist. If I had no proof that viruses caused illness back in an age where people thought cold weather caused it, it would not mean I was wrong. I only lacked the ability to prove it at the time.

However, if faith ruled the science community, we would not know with certainty that viruses exist.
 

SD45T-2

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The Christian makes a lot of sense. Even science is based on theories, suggestions, predispositions, and potentials. We are rarely certain of anything. Mathematics I would argue is the most certain of all the STEM fields. When we're being taught, as children, that 2+2=4, we are taught that that is an absolute. It is 100% correct. Questioning it will only lead you back to 2+2=4.
One time in Calvin and Hobbes Calvin protested being taught math in school because he claimed it was a religion. :D
 

Lark

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These sorts of charades and the intensity with which their fans circulate them leave me thinking that atheism's brief spell in the sun really is coming to close.

On the other hand what will it have achieved in its time? It hasnt lead to a more civilised, thoughtful and humane religion, it has in fact accentuated and perpetuated the negative within and about religion.

And religion's effect upon atheism and science? Well its inability to avoid mirroring the worst aspects of its opposition and its permitting of atheism and pseudo-science to frame the debate has been for the ill too.

Better than snide, clever, trickery in disputatious debating would be an actual dialogue, that never happened and I dont think its possible at this juncture. The whole world and whole of humankind is the poorer for it.
 

Mal12345

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Why did you post that in response to what I posted and what do you think it means?

I don't know what your red herring response means, at least not with certainty. If only I knew everything with certainty, but then I would have to be God.
 

Mal12345

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One time in Calvin and Hobbes Calvin protested being taught math in school because he claimed it was a religion. :D

Early in this video, Hovind states equivalently the same thing.

 

Nicodemus

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The only thing this video proves is that this kid is smater than this blue-shirt guy. It seems neither has thought a lot about epistemology.
 

Mal12345

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The only thing this video proves is that this kid is smater than this blue-shirt guy. It seems neither has thought a lot about epistemology.

I wouldn't expect a 6th-grader to know much about epistemology beyond common-sense epistemology. And that's all it takes to demolish Mr. Hovind.
 

Lark

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I wouldn't expect a 6th-grader to know much about epistemology beyond common-sense epistemology. And that's all it takes to demolish Mr. Hovind.

So what are you saying then? Should the title of the thread not be 6th-grader demolishes Mr Hovind?

You understand that would have an entirely different import and meaning to what the thread has been titled.
 

kyuuei

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However, if faith ruled the science community, we would not know with certainty that viruses exist.

It's all semantics. People believed the earth was round well before we actually got an astronaut in space. At least a teeny, tiny part of us could have doubted it until we saw the pictures. It is certain enough, though, to apply to our daily lives. Which brings me to my next point..

I don't know anything with certainty unless I know everything (with certainty).

You really don't. There are experts in philosophy, geology, physics, chemistry, mathematics, etc. that are Christians, Islamic, Hindu, etc. Complete experts in their fields--the very STEM fields that try so hard to argue for Atheism--and they still maintain their faith. There is still not enough evidence to completely discount the religion itself, albeit many discount the WAY it is taught and the translations used.

At the end of the day, we don't know, and we never will. That's the "We agree to disagree" argument ending statement for religion vs atheism. And that statement really means that no one can know with certainty who is right. We can only know practical certainty to use within our daily lives until such a time as one dies. No one knows everything. For Christians, that certainty is within God. Only he knows, and it is the only certainty in life. And really, it is not a bad practical application in and of itself. Humans are usually the ones that make it more annoying than it has to be.

I have to say though, for atheists to rely so heavily on science, they are WAY too certain that everything is not connected by something. At the end of the day, if an atheist does not believe that no proof is not a sign of non-existence, they are being just as blind as the Christians can be.

One time in Calvin and Hobbes Calvin protested being taught math in school because he claimed it was a religion. :D

:laugh:
 

Mal12345

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So what are you saying then? Should the title of the thread not be 6th-grader demolishes Mr Hovind?

You understand that would have an entirely different import and meaning to what the thread has been titled.

Yet another red herring response.

Isn't it true that Mr. Hovind is a Christian? Stuttering in defeat and then repeating the premise is, admittedly, not limited to Mr. Hovind or to Christians in general.
 

Nicodemus

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I wouldn't expect a 6th-grader to know much about epistemology beyond common-sense epistemology. And that's all it takes to demolish Mr. Hovind.
Is Mr. Hovind a well-known religious propagandist? In that case I could understand why exposing his shortcomings might be interesting. On the other hand, it is still publicity.
 

Mal12345

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It's all semantics. People believed the earth was round well before we actually got an astronaut in space. At least a teeny, tiny part of us could have doubted it until we saw the pictures. It is certain enough, though, to apply to our daily lives. Which brings me to my next point..



You really don't. There are experts in philosophy, geology, physics, chemistry, mathematics, etc. that are Christians, Islamic, Hindu, etc. Complete experts in their fields--the very STEM fields that try so hard to argue for Atheism--and they still maintain their faith. There is still not enough evidence to completely discount the religion itself, albeit many discount the WAY it is taught and the translations used.

At the end of the day, we don't know, and we never will. That's the "We agree to disagree" argument ending statement for religion vs atheism. And that statement really means that no one can know with certainty who is right. We can only know practical certainty to use within our daily lives until such a time as one dies. No one knows everything. For Christians, that certainty is within God. Only he knows, and it is the only certainty in life. And really, it is not a bad practical application in and of itself. Humans are usually the ones that make it more annoying than it has to be.

I have to say though, for atheists to rely so heavily on science, they are WAY too certain that everything is not connected by something. At the end of the day, if an atheist does not believe that no proof is not a sign of non-existence, they are being just as blind as the Christians can be.

Did anybody here state that religion doesn't have some value (as when you refer to discounting it, because that's a statement of valuation)? Religion obviously has value, at least subjectively. It simply has no value for science. Can faith and reason exist in the same person? Obviously. Does it have anything to do with the present topic? No. Religion can be of value to scientists, but it is of no value to science.
 

Lark

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Yet another red herring response.

Isn't it true that Mr. Hovind is a Christian? Stuttering in defeat and then repeating the premise is, admittedly, not limited to Mr. Hovind or to Christians in general.

Red herring response? I'm sorry I dont understand, you also failed to reply to my questions.
 

Mal12345

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Is Mr. Hovind a well-known religious propagandist? In that case I could understand why exposing his shortcomings might be interesting. On the other hand, it is still publicity.

The guy is all over youtube, so he is apparently a youtube propagandist.

And he has his own Wiki entry, so obviously that makes him somebody.
 

Mal12345

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Red herring response? I'm sorry I dont understand, you also failed to reply to my questions.

I thought I answered according to my infinitely limited comprehension of your comment. It's a red herring because, so far, you haven't dealt with the topic of the thread, but only dismissed the value of such debates.
 
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