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Typology and Integral Philosophy

Lark

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I understand the basic point he's trying to make(interiorists focus more on personal responsibility vs exteriorists who focus more on social responsibility), I just object to the methodology and paradigm he's operating under to make it.

My gut reaction is to agree that there's little good can come of either blurring the boundaries between faith and politics or making associations of this kind between modernity and premodernity.

On the other hand there are perrenial ideas or symbolic concepts which keep showing up using religion, ideology or culture as a vehicle or banner of convenience.

Although I think that clip you quoted from the other poster is anything other than a kind of vulgar association, like connecting ideologies to popular sports figures or celebs.
 
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Sniffles

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My gut reaction is to agree that there's little good can come of either blurring the boundaries between faith and politics or making associations of this kind between modernity and premodernity.

On the other hand there are perrenial ideas or symbolic concepts which keep showing up using religion, ideology or culture as a vehicle or banner of convenience.
No doubt there are, and studying those connections is a legitimate concern. Political Theology for example is the study of the relationship between theological concepts and political presuppositions. This is legitimate, however, as Prof. Christos Yannaras explains, the temptation is often to reduce being a Christian to merely being active in socio-political matters.
 

Lark

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No doubt there are, and studying those connections is a legitimate concern. Political Theology for example is the study of the relationship between theological concepts and political presuppositions. This is legitimate, however, as Prof. Christos Yannaras explains, the temptation is often to reduce being a Christian to merely being active in socio-political matters.

Yeah, I think there's a fundamental difference between faith properly understood and temporal or worldly affairs.
 

Salomé

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May I ask what you found interesting about it? I'm curious.

For me, to try to draw connections between Republicans and Democrats and teachings of the Buddha presents alot of considerable problems, just as it would if you did the same of connecting them to Christ. First off, this means blurring the lines between political ideologies and religious/philosophical teachings. Not only that, but Republicans and Democrats are both operating within the same political parameters, just with two different twists. To try to draw some major categorical differences on that premise also presents problems. That's kinda my basic take on this.

I understand the basic point he's trying to make(interiorists focus more on personal responsibility vs exteriorists who focus more on social responsibility), I just object to the methodology and paradigm he's operating under to make it.
You're both missing the point completely.

Blurring the lines/ finding connections / looking at things from multiple perspectives is what the Integral approach is all about.

He's actually showing that a lot of the distinctions that we think exist are completely artificial and a result of being trapped in a too narrow a frame of reference. There is partial truth to be found in multiple approaches.
The most interesting bit was towards the end (15:00 onwards)- how the US regressed after 9/11 to an ethnocentric, imperialistic mindset and how that was both necessary and damaging at the same time. I like his "Third Way" ideas (although Tony Blair failed spectacularly to implement them).

But anyway, that wasn't my main reason for posting or I would have posted in the Politics sub-forum. It's just illustrative of his way of thinking.
 

Wonkavision

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*bump*

This guy (Ken Wilbur) fascinates me. Anyone have a view on what his type is?
He has to be E9 and some flavour of NP. Comes across as an extrovert. I've noticed people who are more integrated tend to be more balanced on T/F and I/E (and thus harder to type). Or perhaps people who are more balanced just come across as more integrated? Dunno.
I'd say ENTP, tentatively. Ne-dom almost certainly.

Yeah, he definitely seems Ne dom.

Very broad connective thinking (and it even seemed hard for him to stay on track at times :D.)

I wonder if he ever did get back to why Buddha was, in some ways, Republican and, in some ways, Democrat. :D
 

Salomé

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Yeah, he definitely seems Ne dom.

Very broad connective thinking (and it even seemed hard for him to stay on track at times :D.)

I wonder if he ever did get back to why Buddha was, in some ways, Republican and, in some ways, Democrat. :D
Did you see him writing without looking down whilst continuing to speak? :D

Republican: Everything is Kharma
Democrat: Fucked with the caste system, extending rights to the Untouchables.
 
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Sniffles

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You're both missing the point completely.

Blurring the lines/ finding connections / looking at things from multiple perspectives is what the Integral approach is all about.
I still stand by my argument that he's going about this the wrong way.
 
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Sniffles

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Going about what? He's a philosopher, not a politician.

Still in trying to analyze and show how artificial certain political categories are he's not making much sense here. I would say he's operating out of his league in that regards. Im not even challenging the valdity of Integral Philosophy here even, rather challenging how he's decided to apply it to political matters.
 

Salomé

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Still in trying to analyze and show how artificial certain political categories are he's not making much sense here. I would say he's operating out of his league in that regards.
He was an advisor to Clinton and Blair. Maybe they were out of their league too. :huh:
 

RaptorWizard

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"The real intent of my writing is not to say, you must think in this way. The real intent is: here are some of the many important facets of this extraordinary Kosmos; have you thought about including them in your own worldview?" - Ken Wilber

I put that quote into my signature yesterday from the great integral philosopher himself, and I must say, that quote applies very well with many of my amazing metaphysical messages promoted on this forum!

He's definately some sort of NT, either type 5 or 9, and self-pres last.
 

Ene

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It's a wonderful quote, and that is exactly what I think when I post stuff. I'm always concerned that people are going to think that I'm trying to push my views on them but that's not what I want to do. I really just want to prompt people to think about the possibility of what I'm saying. And yes, it DOES apply to many of your messages. And for the record, I don't know if I'm a 5 or a 9. I've come out as both so I decided to put idk as my E type, because I don't know it.
 

RaptorWizard

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It's a wonderful quote, and that is exactly what I think when I post stuff.

Indeed, openness to all the opinions is vital for expanding worlds.

I'm always concerned that people are going to think that I'm trying to push my views on them but that's not what I want to do.

For me at least, it's not pushiness itself that's the problem. The problem is when people are pushing views that are poorly constructed, and/or directed with a foolish sense of assuredness. I seem to find that some of the worst and most dominating opinions come from people who are just so sure that their own opinions are the right ones, while some of the best opinions come from people who are much more open and questioning.

I really just want to prompt people to think about the possibility of what I'm saying.

This sums it up well. Everyone of course has an opinion, and those opinions are all relative to the individual. I don't think we should be too sure of our own ideas, since other people have their own ideas as well. It's stupid to assume that we ourselves of all people actually have the best ones, which is exactly why we should consider the possibilities as presented by all people.

And yes, it DOES apply to many of your messages.

Yes, I have a lot of faith in myself and what I can bring to life. This extends to other people as well. If someone has something genuine to tell me, even if I don't like them as a person, they deserve a chance for me to hear them out regardless.

And for the record, I don't know if I'm a 5 or a 9. I've come out as both so I decided to put idk as my E type, because I don't know it.

Some people choose to tritype themselves. If I were to guess on what yours might be, I would say: 5w4>9w1>4w5.
 

Ene

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For me at least, it's not pushiness itself that's the problem. The problem is when people are pushing views that are poorly constructed, and/or directed with a foolish sense of assuredness. I seem to find that some of the worst and most dominating opinions come from people who are just so sure that their own opinions are the right ones, while some of the best opinions come from people who are much more open and questioning.

Absolutely. I always dread speaking with someone who is adamant and dogmatic and won't even listen to a possibility outside thier own construct. I mean they don't have to change their mind, just pay someone else the respect of listening is all. haha...but, oh, well...I think sometimes ignorance is a choice. It's just easier for some people.

A tri-type? Hmmm....that might take into account the many facets of one individual.
 
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