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For or against?

Lark

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Do you spend more time thinking about what you are "for" or "in favour" of or what you are "against" or "not in favour of"? Does it form your politics or determine your vote or even shape your opinion of other people and the likelihood of interacting with them?
 

Nicki

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Against, it's much easier for me to decide whether I dislike or disagree with something.
 
S

Society

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For, though its mostly my own when i used to come up with new policy ideas. not as into politics as i used to be though.
 

Ivy

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I actually just read a very interesting article that is related to this concept and was going to start a new thread, but felt like it fit here better.

How Skeptics and Believers Can Connect

A quote:

It reminded me that one of the things that makes mutual respect between believers and nonbelievers difficult is that there is a kind of line in the sand, and you’re either on one side of it or on the other. Skeptics do this too, of course. I remember a dinner party where I was explaining my work among evangelicals to a colleague, and her face grew longer and longer until she said, “You talk to them?”

The in-your-face confrontation makes it that much harder to connect. The more my interviewer pressed me, the more my faith — such as it is — grew strained. I had come to live (theologically speaking) in a messy in-between. My interviewer wanted clarity. The more he put me on the spot, the more I wanted to say that I shared nothing with him and that his beliefs were flimsy dreams. And the more I resisted, the more he just got mad. He was determined. I was exhausted.

Anthropologists have a term for this racheting-up of opposition: schismogenesis. Gregory Bateson developed the word to describe mirroring interactions, where every move by each side makes the other respond more negatively, like those horrible arguments with your spouse where everything you say makes the other person dig in their heels more fiercely.

As an "in-betweener" I often find myself defending reasonable atheists from rabid Christians, or defending reasonable Christians from rabid atheists, depending on who's being more aggressive in that particular exchange. I don't occupy any firm space in this particular standoff, so typically where I land is "you seem pretty certain of that, how in love with your own limited human intellect must you be to get to that point?"

I guess that makes me a "neither," in response to your question, Lark.
 

highlander

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For.

I don't like to waste time thinking about what I'm against.
 

highlander

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For.

I don't like to waste time thinking about what I'm against.
 
I

Infinite Bubble

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Against. I suppose people who're "For" are more likely to be optimists, with the opposite true for those "Against". I'm very much a pessimist.
 

RoadPaveMent

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For. It makes it easier for me to pinpoint the movements and communities I support.
 

ygolo

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I don't really spend a lot of time thinking what I am for or against. When I am asked to decide something, I like to find out what I can about the decision and then decide.

If it's something simple like "are you for eating at restaurant A", I usually go by instinct.

If it a measure on a ballot, I look at the arguments, check the facts, then mark my sample ballot. On election day, I bubble in what I selected. Unless I get new information that changes my decision.

I used to vote for particular candidates based on how competent I thought he or she would be based on past record. I block voted last election for the party I thought would be more able to compromise. Now, I am just very disillusioned. We shall see what I do next election.
 
G

garbage

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Depends on whether some situation at hand goes for or against my values ;)

It usually winds up as "for," or advocation. Sometimes, though, something just "isn't right" and so I wind up in "against" mode.


Mayhaps this is a D&D alignment thing? I'm Neutral-Good; the Neutral might have something to do with it.
 

Mole

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Once we are for something, we find there are those who are against it.

And this is a test of character, for a mensch is known by their enemies.

And knowing we have enemies is also test of character, and is a test of our prudence, for if we go charging ahead, our enemies will undo us. No, as the Bible tells us we must be, "as gentle as a dove and as shrewd as a snake". And rat cunning is not out of the question.
 
S

Society

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I dont like it when people are against things without offering alternatives, come to think of it.
It seems very distasteful on some level.
 

Lark

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Once we are for something, we find there are those who are against it.

And this is a test of character, for a mensch is known by their enemies.

And knowing we have enemies is also test of character, and is a test of our prudence, for if we go charging ahead, our enemies will undo us. No, as the Bible tells us we must be, "as gentle as a dove and as shrewd as a snake". And rat cunning is not out of the question.

Tread softly and carry a big stick.
 

Mole

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I dont like it when people are against things without offering alternatives, come to think of it.
It seems very distasteful on some level.

My father would tell me there was no point in criticising something if we didn't offer a better alternative. But he was naive and wrong.

He was naive and wrong because critical thinking is worthwhile for its own sake.

And of course by critical thinking we mean the criticism of ideas and not the criticism of persons.
 

Winds of Thor

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My father would tell me there was no point in criticising something if we didn't offer a better alternative. But he was naive and wrong.

He was naive and wrong because critical thinking is worthwhile for its own sake.

And of course by critical thinking we mean the criticism of ideas and not the criticism of persons.

Your father was right. Ideas and people are connected, so you know the collateral damage is a criticism of a person. No one likes a critical spirit.
 

Mole

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Your father was right. Ideas and people are connected, so you know the collateral damage is a criticism of a person. No one likes a critical spirit.

I don't know about there but here we have the separation of church and state. And this prepares us for the separation of the idea and the person.

There are those who have not experienced the separation of church and state or the separation of the idea and the person. So when the church or mosque is critiqued, naturally they think the state or the person is also being critiqued.

Also critical thinking needs to be learnt, and so it is an acquired taste.

And naturally those who have not learnt to think critically don't like a critical spirit; but those who practise critical thinking like a critical spirit quite a lot.
 

Little_Sticks

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I dont like it when people are against things without offering alternatives, come to think of it.
It seems very distasteful on some level.

Spoken like a Jungian irrational. :D
That would be my answer.

I don't know about there but here we have the separation of church and state. And this prepares us for the separation of the idea and the person.

There are those who have not experienced the separation of church and state or the separation of the idea and the person. So when the church or mosque is critiqued, naturally they think the state or the person is also being critiqued.

Also critical thinking needs to be learnt, and so it is an acquired taste.

And naturally those who have not learnt to think critically don't like a critical spirit; but those who practise critical thinking like a critical spirit quite a lot.

We all have ideas about who and what we are and why and how we differ and are the same. And it isn't a religious designation. It's an existential problem that we all have to deal with in order to comprehend ourselves. Your stance is purely dehumanizing; and religion is not to blame here for your philosophical ignorance.
 

Magic Poriferan

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I preface an answer with the fact that I think it's problematic to chop one's ideas down this dichotomy. Still, I will at least make a rough estimate, if not one that I'd want to be held up in any remotely important matter.

I used to lean much more toward thinking about what I was against. Eventually it became too frustrating to keep dismissing ideas without having anything to replace them. I no longer felt that I had any difficulty identifying problems, but it seemed pointless if I could not conceive of solutions. So, I tried to move much more toward identifying what I am for, and I've felt much more satisfied with my ideas ever since.

It's advice I'd give to anyone with similar positions as mine, people with certain ideas generally considered left wing but more specifically like social democracy, market socialism, restricting the profit motive, or fighting for financial equality. I think we spend too much time telling everyone what we think is wrong with corporatism, laissez-fair economics and the like. We should tell people about these things, but it's pointless if we cannot also provide an alternative and explain why we are for it.
 
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