Is religion dying?

[Ricin]

Do you think religion is dying and what day do you feel about it whether you think it is or isnt happening? What has lead you to reach this conclusion? Do you believe that were you live and your cultural backdrop are important in reaching this conclusion? Whether you believe it is dying or not do you think it is universally so or to do with demography and geography?

Yup. It's surely dying a slow death.
I think it's things like how a long time ago when people didn't understand what lightning was or where it came from they just guessed and said it was some guy in the sky that's throwing it on the earth. Now a days anyone who believed in that would be laughed at and considered silly. Mainly because we have a vast understanding of what lightning is, where it comes from, why it strikes the earth, etc..

Religions saving grace would be lower education and higher dropout rates. The more someone knows about science and logic the sillier religion seems.

well, currently I live in an area where roughly 95% [from a guess] believe in the bible and in god. And my upbringing was one as a mixed kid [who's family wasn't extra traditional about our heritage and culture or silly things like being "black and proud" ew....]. So, we weren't very cultural really. We were taught about cultures, but weren't really taught to embrace any said culture. We were, however raised to believe in the bible and went to church.

But even then whenever a church seemed to do something shady we left. e.g. One preached about how women have to be submissive all the time to the man. And how we don't love god if we don't give money to the church. My parents basically say "No, fuck that." And left.

Anyway, what's with all the demographic and cultural questions?

Personally I think poor people are usually less educated than well off people and rich people.
I also think the less one understands about science and logic the more likely they are to believe in imaginary beings like those heard of in religions.
Though education doesn't determine ones overall intelligence it does give them knowledge about many things they'd never have the time or resources to figure out on their own, like logic and science.

And since rich people have better access to education and knowledge they are less likely to believe in silly things like men throwing lightning bolts from the sky. While poor people are more likely to believe the imaginary stories since they are less likely to have been given knowledge about science and logic.


Also, generally speaking minorities are more likely to be poor [for many reasons I don't feel like getting into. But in short: they get fucked]. So they're also the most likely to believe in religion.


Personally. As time goes on it seems certain things become common knowledge that were at some point vast breakthroughs in science. So, eventually nearly all religion will be seen as something rather silly.

 

[lowtech redneck]

Read this book and then come back to this thread:

http://www.amazon.com/God-Is-Back-R...F8&qid=1347465962&sr=8-1&keywords=god+is+back

Heh. I wonder if that's meant to be a direct rebuttal to this book: http://www.amazon.com/God-Dead-Secularization-Religion-Spirituality/dp/0631232753

Anyway, I think religion (at least in terms of measurable religiosity) is still in general decline in the West, due more to pop culture socialization than either modernity or rationalism. That's not really in contradiction with simultaneous growth in evangelicalism; the lifestyle-encompassing nature of that and similar religious movements offsets the secularizing influences of entertainment and mass media-its the lukewarm religious believers, the type who go to church on Sundays and pray before dinner but otherwise don't give religion much thought, that are most susceptible to secularization.

 

[Lark]

Heh. I wonder if that's meant to be a direct rebuttal to this book: http://www.amazon.com/God-Dead-Secularization-Religion-Spirituality/dp/0631232753

Anyway, I think religion (at least in terms of measurable religiosity) is still in general decline in the West, due more to pop culture socialization than either modernity or rationalism. That's not really in contradiction with simultaneous growth in evangelicalism; the lifestyle-encompassing nature of that and similar religious movements offsets the secularizing influences of entertainment and mass media-its the lukewarm religious believers, the type who go to church on Sundays and pray before dinner but otherwise don't give religion much thought, that are most susceptible to secularization.

I agree but I dont think that evangelical movements are akin to religion as it has existed to date, especially the most pop or media orientated varieties and some of them are money spinning enterprises.

There's been fundamental changes, I dont believe that the mind is wired as it once was and in some ways the idea that "God is dead" could be sociological observation and psychological analysis.

The extent to which religion is the first and foremost guide to actions and encompasses the primary and priority moral compass has changed, I mean I dont believe that contemporaneous individuals would be less likely to commit crimes than anyone else.

 

[Ginkgo]

No.

 

[Lark]

Religion has been on its deathbed ever since 1648 when the West adopted the idea of religion as being merely a facet of a society's culture, instead of being the central identity of that culture.

For as long as that? Can you really call it a "deathbed" then?

 

[xisnotx]

Humans have religion. Animals don't. (Lets assume so, anyway).
So, humans represent the birth of religion.
If anything, religion is "growing up".
This is a good thing.

 

[sprinkles]

In the sense of 'true believers' I think it may dwindle.

In the sense of proclaimed adherents, I don't think it's going anywhere any time soon.

Edit: Also what I think will happen though is it will probably be seen that Christianity is not THE religion but rather A religion among many.

 

[UniqueMixture]

It's just irrelevant.

 

[Ginkgo]

Religion has been on its deathbed ever since 1648 when the West adopted the idea of religion as being merely a facet of a society's culture, instead of being the central identity of that culture.

Haha, number of anti-theists would disagree with you.

 

[onemoretime]

For as long as that? Can you really call it a "deathbed" then?

364 out of 10,000 years of "modern" religion isn't all that long. Maybe convalescence is a better term.

Haha, number of anti-theists would disagree with you.

Antitheists have a tendency to hold somewhat absolutist positions, don't they?

 

[sprinkles]

Verily, yea verily I say unto thee, take ye not lightly Thurgmagurgh the Bony Squid
Come ye who would be blessed and let him supplicate to Their Tentacular Hand
See ye with the Eye of thine Eye
Speak ye with the Mouth of thine Mouth
Sing ye thy Thurg and praise ye thy Magurgh and utter ye thy Dirge of the Thousand Blistered Tongues
Thus They commandeth ye

Amen.

 

[Ginkgo]

Antitheists have a tendency to hold somewhat absolutist positions, don't they?

Yes. Which means that the idea that the entire west has adopted a fundamentally secularist culture is absolutely bunk! If the west adopted a fundamentally secularist culture then everyone in the west would be neutral about religion. We would be either ignorant of it, or would be absolutely dispassionate about its presence in society. (crossed out because if it was present, then not everyone would be dispassionate about it). Even if the religious artifacts of a culture were completely erased, I would bet all of my savings that, because our minds are metaphysical, religious outcroppings would develop as we developed more artifacts to reflect the metaphysical.

 

[UniqueMixture]

364 out of 10,000 years of "modern" religion isn't all that long. Maybe convalescence is a better term.



Antitheists have a tendency to hold somewhat absolutist positions, don't they?

10,000 years of religion out of 200,000 of homo sapiens existence is not that long either especially since we just may be one tiny step in a much longer/bigger/more widespread

 

[sprinkles]

Yes. Which means that the idea that the entire west has adopted a fundamentally secularist culture is absolutely bunk! If the west adopted a fundamentally secularist culture then everyone in the west would be neutral about religion. We would be either ignorant of it, or would be absolutely dispassionate about its presence in society. (crossed out because if it was present, then not everyone would be dispassionate about it). Even if the religious artifacts of a culture were completely erased, I would bet all of my savings that, because our minds are metaphysical, religious outcroppings would develop as we developed more artifacts to reflect the metaphysical.

Depends on the kind of secularism you are talking about. Secular in India for example is a totally different concept than what secular is here.

 

[Ginkgo]

Depends on the kind of secularism you are talking about. Secular in India for example is a totally different concept than what secular is here.

Explain.

 

[sprinkles]

Explain.

Over there it doesn't mean 'not religious'. India is constitutionally a secular state, but in their context it means tolerance of all religions and keeping religion out of government rather than disregarding religion.

It doesn't always work that way in practice, obviously. But basically over there, in theory, it's about not having one state religion or 'true' religion and speaks to religious equality instead of secularism in the sense of ignoring religion.

 

[Tiltyred]

I don't think religion is dying.

 

[Coriolis]

But there is always something sad about seeing fundamentals leave. I don't want those tiny tribes in the Amazon to cease existing and start using money. I don't want to see Roman Catholic churches stop using Latin. I think youth are quick to forget the roots of things.. and I'm not sure exactly what, but I know there is importance in those things beyond them just being historically what's happened. It is why I still do rituals at all, and still acknowledge Pagan holidays and read Tarot occasionally.

The Catholics abandoned Latin decades ago. The things you mention are primarily cultural, and I am sorry to see them go as well.

If anything, religion is "growing up".
This is a good thing.

I hope this is happening. Part of this growing up process is understanding what questions religion can answer, and which it cannot. I would like to think that at least blind adherence to religion is dying, but I see evidence to the contrary every day.

 

[greenfairy]

Do you think religion is dying?

I hope so.

 

[Eric B]

One theory is that "the form" of religion was pretty much embodied in the Temple ystem of the Biblical Old Covenent. When it was destroyed in AD70 (in what in this theory is actually the "end-of-the-world judgment", not something literal and yet future to us), then the form of religion began disappearing. ritual sacrifice has disappeared from most religions, where it was once universal.
Religion then began reforming itself, to be less ritualistic, but then still retained control (In Christianity, it involved bringing a lot of ritual back, but not as far as actual sacrifices, instead, then they substituted "spiritual" ones).

But as times changed, printing was invented so people could read for themselves, and scientific discoveres challenged a lot of that control, and peopel began throwing off a lot of religion. MEanwhiule, from within, many belivers were forced to come more to terms with culture and change some things. A few even began moving away from the form altogether (Such as the home/cell church movement).

Also, greater conscience in mankind in general, though it is still spreading slowly. As one person recently said in a discussion I'm in:
How does everyone feel about democracy now?
How would you have felt about it 500 years ago?
How does everyone here feel about slavery?
How would you have felt about slavery 2000 years ago?
How does everyone here feel about women's rights?
How would you have felt about women's rights 300 years ago?"

Form religion often tries to prove iself by saying things are getting worse, but in may ways, they have gotten better, even man's conscience, and what religion had often insisted God has told them their mission was (i.e. to enslave others). Of course, man doesn't always obeys conscience, and we may have built more powerful weapons (hence the illusion that things are totally worse, "we can now destroy all life so it must be 'the end'", etc), but then this just shows the need for continuing grace.