• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Losing my religion

acronach

New member
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
304
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
i went through a religion phase. i pretty much just looked at a bunch of different ways of thinking and just chose the one that made the most sense to me.

pretty much, im just agnostic. there could be something up there, i don't know if there is or what it is, but when I die it will all become clear. In the meantime, who wants to party? XP
 
W

WhoCares

Guest
Losing religion is much like finally figuring other peole out. You get to a point where it dawns on you, all this stuff others insisted was terribly important is just drama and bullshit. My alltime favourite religion caveat is right here....

If God is so perfect and brilliant he fucked up big time making humans. What with they're insatiable desires for iniquity and all. Yes, yes, testing your love and all that. But why does an omnipotent being need to 'test' stuff? Its a bit like you needing to test the lightswitches in your house everyday. Wouldn't you just know, if you were the most powerful force in the universe, that shit you make works?
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Listen members of typology central, I really have no idea what to do and no idea what to believe. I am frightened in every possible way, no matter which way I turn when it comes to religion. Has anyone else on this forum had trouble sorting out religious beliefs and if so, how did you sort them out?
I have done this. I can relate my personal experiences, but first I would point out several things:

1. Christianity, or the flavor of Christianity you grew up with, is not the only religion out there. If you find comfort or inspiration in the idea of God, there are many other paths to him (her), not all nearly as punitive as what you described.

2. Religion is not the only source for morality. If you are seeking primarily some principles to guide your actions, follow Nicodemus' advice and do some reading, and thinking.

3. You do not need to be religious at all to be uncomfortable about lying or dishonesty in your job. You mention you "used to be in sales", though; do you have a different job now that challenges your personal integrity less?

My falling away from my childhood religion was less traumatic than yours, since it did not involve the kind of moral dilemma you present. I simply became more and more disenchanted with and critical of my religion, and all the senselessness and inconsistency in it. Ultimately I realized I just didn't believe it. I went through some years when I really didn't know what I believed at all. During this time, I was convinced of two things: (1) the reality of my beliefs would be found internally; and (2) at least I believed in God/deity/some being or existence beyond ourselves. (2) was reinforced significantly by the writings of scientists of old, like Newton and Galileo, who saw study of the creation as one means of coming to know the creator. I didn't believe this because of what they wrote, but saw my own core belief reflected in their writings - the comfort of familiarity, I suppose.

I investigated many things - other forms of Christianity, even Bahai faith (learned much there). Eventually I stumbled across a book, which led to others almost like a scavenger hunt, and learned what questions I needed to be asking, and started to find some answers. Now coming almost full circle, I can appreciate my childhood religion much more since I don't feel I have to fit myself into it, much as I can appreciate on someone else an outfit that it not my size, or style, or color preference. There are many paths up the mountain; all that matters is that you are climbing.

If you are still having a hard time getting out of the religious mindset you were brought up with, try to focus on the more compassionate side of God/Jesus presented there. There is much in the Bible about how God reaches out to those who want to know him. For now, take this to mean simply that as long as you are honestly seeking, you will eventually find what you need, you just need to remain open to it.
 

Beorn

Permabanned
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
5,005
life story

I don't know how your parents raised you, but you display almost no knowledge of how the Christian God of the Bible works in this world. The God you are frightened of is a God who does not love you and is only interested in making you feel guilty and controlling you to take you away from the things you're good at.

I'm glad I don't believe in that God, but believe in and worship the Christian God.
 

The Great One

New member
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
3,439
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
6w7
Thanks guys for all the comments. My biggest problem is that my mind is going into super Ti mode, and investigating the hell out of what really happens when I die. It's not like this Fi-style, "I want to explore how I feel about religion thing", it's more of like a "I want to really investigate what really happens when I die thing, and what makes logical sense to me". This issue pesters me day and night. In fact, many times I'm terrified to even go outside and jog for fear of being hit by a car. I feel like if I died right now, it would end poorly no matter what: I would either die and go to hell for not keeping the faith, or I would just perish forever. For that matter, even when I'm taking a shower in the morning, and the water gets too hot, visions of burning in hellfire overload my mind. It gets so bad, I am even starting to have panic attacks about this.

I'm wondering how to solve this problem. I mean, I guess I could go to a psychologist, but I'm not really sure if they could help me because it has to do with religious issues. Also, if I do decide to keep the religion, then I think that I should really re-investigate just who God really is. I think that there are two big ways to view God, the old testament ENTJ 8w7 God, and then the 2w1 INFJ God in the New testament. I view God more as the ENTJ vengful God, and I really think that this messes me up mentally.
 

Nicodemus

New member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
9,756
Thanks guys for all the comments. My biggest problem is that my mind is going into super Ti mode, and investigating the hell out of what really happens when I die. It's not like this Fi-style, "I want to explore how I feel about religion thing", it's more of like a "I want to really investigate what really happens when I die thing, and what makes logical sense to me". This issue pesters me day and night. In fact, many times I'm terrified to even go outside and jog for fear of being hit by a car. I feel like if I died right now, it would end poorly no matter what: I would either die and go to hell for not keeping the faith, or I would just perish forever. For that matter, even when I'm taking a shower in the morning, and the water gets too hot, visions of burning in hellfire overload my mind. It gets so bad, I am even starting to have panic attacks about this.

I'm wondering how to solve this problem. I mean, I guess I could go to a psychologist, but I'm not really sure if they could help me because it has to do with religious issues. Also, if I do decide to keep the religion, then I think that I should really re-investigate just who God really is. I think that there are two big ways to view God, the old testament ENTJ 8w7 God, and then the 2w1 INFJ God in the New testament. I view God more as the ENTJ vengful God, and I really think that this messes me up mentally.
The answers to your questions are very simple, you just do not like them.

I imagine your brother is quite annoyed with the way you go about these things.
 

zelo1954

ISFJophile
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
218
MBTI Type
INfp
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp
I think that there are two big ways to view God, the old testament ENTJ 8w7 God, and then the 2w1 INFJ God in the New testament. I view God more as the ENTJ vengful God, and I really think that this messes me up mentally.

Yes these are two big ways. There's also a 3rd way: God is a 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 w everything to all.
 

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
There is always Albert Einstein's INTP Cosmic God who is manifested throughout the harmony of the Cosmos and all of its radiant beauty who owes no justice to a God who punishes his subjects!
 

Qlip

Post Human Post
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Messages
8,464
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Thanks guys for all the comments. My biggest problem is that my mind is going into super Ti mode, and investigating the hell out of what really happens when I die. It's not like this Fi-style, "I want to explore how I feel about religion thing", it's more of like a "I want to really investigate what really happens when I die thing, and what makes logical sense to me". This issue pesters me day and night. In fact, many times I'm terrified to even go outside and jog for fear of being hit by a car. I feel like if I died right now, it would end poorly no matter what: I would either die and go to hell for not keeping the faith, or I would just perish forever. For that matter, even when I'm taking a shower in the morning, and the water gets too hot, visions of burning in hellfire overload my mind. It gets so bad, I am even starting to have panic attacks about this.

I'm wondering how to solve this problem. I mean, I guess I could go to a psychologist, but I'm not really sure if they could help me because it has to do with religious issues. Also, if I do decide to keep the religion, then I think that I should really re-investigate just who God really is. I think that there are two big ways to view God, the old testament ENTJ 8w7 God, and then the 2w1 INFJ God in the New testament. I view God more as the ENTJ vengful God, and I really think that this messes me up mentally.

If that's all it is, take Pascal's wager.. chances are it won't sit with you well, and you'll want your 'Fi' style exploration anyway.
 

ZPowers

New member
Joined
Feb 11, 2010
Messages
1,488
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
There is always Albert Einstein's INTP Cosmic God who is manifested throughout the harmony of the Cosmos and all of its radiant beauty who owes no justice to a God who punishes his subjects!

What precisely is meant by that and whether it qualifies as a "God" in the sense that we generally use the word or merely the physical and scientific laws and nature of the universe is uncertain at best.
 

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
What precisely is meant by that and whether it qualifies as a "God" in the sense that we generally use the word or merely the physical and scientific laws and nature of the universe is uncertain at best.

“ You cannot understand the glories of the universe without believing there is some Supreme Power behind it.”
― Stephen Hawking

Just like you said the true nature of God or this Supreme Power or whatever is and perhaps will ever remain an incalculable mystery.
 

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,569
Yeah, I really struggled with this and at about your age as well. My advice would be to take it slow. Try -not- to think of it actively and let your brain do the work in the background. Also, allow yourself a space for spiritual contemplation whether it be mediatation or even just listening to music without any lyrics. Often times, our brain encodes how we feel about very fundamental emotional concepts like God in symbols. So find a place to close your eyes and be calm and just let the symbols play with one another until they find a harmonious way of being with one another. I would also suggest to you that perhaps you can give up your belief in hell without giving up your belief in God. I believe [MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION] is Catholic and does not believe in a literal hell (he may correct me if I am wrong). For myself, I am sort of an poly/pantheistic animist I guess. I think of God as the aggregate consciousness between the interaction of subatomic particles, fields, branes, etc while also questioning some of the basic tenets of physics/mathematics like proof by negation (which makes things quite weird indeed). I know that might not make a lot of sense, but it has been the only way I have found of grounding my thought in a more or less scientific worldview while still allowing my own inner consciousness to express itself freely in a way that is real for me. I wish you well and hope you may find the inner peace you seek.

3 more suggestions:

Stay away from "negative" beliefs. This CAN'T be true, this is FALSE, etc etc

Stay away from beliefs that -require- yourself, God, or others to be "evil." Perhaps others are doing the best they can with the resources they have available to them.

Play "let's pretend" and let yourself believe things that make you happy even if they contradict what makes most others happy. However, try to at the same time connect your beliefs to others in a way that makes both yourself and them happy. Best of luck.

Hell is seperation from God and that's literal enough, people can give themselves or others hell if they want.
 

JocktheMotie

Habitual Fi LineStepper
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
8,491
My favorite part of this thread is that the OP specifically asked Raptorwizard for his thoughts and was then surprised at his response.
 

gromit

likes this
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
6,508
Hey [MENTION=15607]The Great One[/MENTION], I was also raised pretty religious and feel like you cannot *know* what happens when you die, if there is a God really, or anything else like that. And it's almost like the harder you try, the more lost you become. Seems to me time and experience are what bring you peace, and, in a way, answers. I would say to try to embrace and embody the principles you can agree with from your upbringing and try to let the rest slide. Be gentle with yourself. Live according to truth and goodness as you understand, seek to improve yourself, and to let go of the things that are holding you back.

That is all that anyone (including any God that is in any way GOOD) can ask.

I think as you let things go, that you will find peace and answers, in an indirect way. A lot of things seem to come that way, not by searching for them directly, but by holding it just beyond your focus and letting it happen.

A friend/religious leader once described a yoga principle that kind of stuck with me, but I think it applies to faith, self-improvement, many things:

Every pose is comprised of equal parts effort and surrender.
 

ilikeitlikethat

You're unbelievable ...
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
2,158
MBTI Type
xNTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
My favorite part of this thread is that the OP specifically asked Raptorwizard for his thoughts and was then surprised at his response.

I didn't even read that, I'm one of those 'reply to the title' posters, sometimes, like this thread; time.

and on that note, I'm still hung up about my religion not wanting to have me if I do this this that, well my church but, my church speaks for my religion.

'My religion's losing me.'
 
Top