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  1. #11
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012


    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    and i would like to follow about i'm only annoyed by 10% of christians the ones who shove their religion down my throat, but i'm also annoyed by atheist who do the same.
    Important point that. Ive always said that dogmatic atheism is as frustrating and annoying as dogmatic theism.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  2. #12


    Because whatever God is, it's much more abstract than we could ever hope to describe tangibly anyway. I guess that atheism (or igtheism) is an appropriate label.

    Yeah, the Western view also tends to neglect other spiritual concepts such as Taoism's Void, Nirvana, Sunyata, etc.

  3. #13
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    378 sx/so
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  4. #14
    . Blank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009


    If there is a god, I don't believe humans have a personal relationship with it.

    Beyond that, there's no reason to believe in any one religion over another and there are a myriad of reasons to not believe in any of them.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  5. #15
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010


    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    that's what I think too.
    How do you define spirituality?

  6. #16
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    9w1 sx/sp


    I was a fundy Lutheran but couldn't reconcile my beliefs with my own observations of the world around me and couldn't take the cognitive dissonance any longer. I've had many moments where I've flirted with the idea of going back but allllllll the old thoughts and feelings come rushing back and then I'm reminded of why I left in the first place.

    Currently, I've been exploring Taoism and and other eastern religions but I don't attach a lot of weight to all of the supernatural aspects of it. I just find the point of view and the perspective to be very refreshing and have begun applying some of the concepts from the Tao De Ching in my own life and have found the effects beneficial.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  7. #17
    morose bourgeoisie
    Join Date
    Mar 2009


    'How do you define spirituality? '

    I define it through my relationship to the natural world, coupled with my understanding of the universe, cosmology and physics.
    I think this is something for the individual to find, through exploration and experience.
    That's what I meant by a 'felt-sense' of reality. For me it's an integration of reason and feeling.
    A few weeks ago, I went for a walk down the hill, south towards the locks between Puget Sound and Lake Washington, in North Seattle. To the east there were small, tattered clouds, bright white on top, light grey on the bottom, drifting east, framed against the blue vault of the sky. Something about them stopped me. I was struck by the perfection of the natural world, and that I’m a part of it.
    This doesn't come from knowledge, but is reinforced by it. It comes from moving in the world and feeling integrated into something bigger than I am, something indefinable and mysterious. I know about clouds. I know why the sky is blue. I know about the precession of the earth, why summer is different from winter; all of that is part of it.
    I used to be a devout atheist, and rejected things that weren’t defined by science. Then I had a few experiences and met a few people that reduced my rational mind to ashes. So I learned to think and be differently.

  8. #18
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Detached and Engaged

    We are atheists because literacy has taught us the habit of mind called detachment. And so it is only natural we become detached from God.

    Literacy also allows us to become detached from objects and so become objective. Literacy has enabled us to become detached from power and so gave us liberal democracy. Literacy has enabled us to become detached from fear of usury and gave us modern economics. And literacy enabled us to become detached from the body and gave us modern medicine. And literacy evens allows us to become detached from each other and so become alienated.

    Yes, the detachment of literacy has made us aliens. We are fascinated by aliens in the movies, but the aliens are us.

    But as you have noticed, the new electronic world is one of engagement. We are once again emotionally engaged with one another. We are once again involved. There is no room for detachment. So alienation is over - we live and die together - for good or ill.

  9. #19
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    451 sp/sx
    INFp Ni


    I think I'm an atheist mainly for semantic reasons. People will tell you that God is love, the universe, a feeling of union with a larger entity, etc. All of those are things that I experience as being more or less real, but I don't typically refer to them as God. Specifically, I don't need to *personify* them (unless they're inherently personified, such as if someone considers consciousness to be God, in which case my difference with the theist in question would be almost purely semantic, although even that difference isn't quite absolute, as I think that God can be a genuinely good label for certain things, although I recognize the label as denoting something basically conceptual and therefore imaginary, which is probably where my deepest difference would lie), and if I personify them at all, I do it in a more whimsical than serious way, regarding the personification as an imaginary *representation* rather than something that is identical to the things it stands for. I also am familiar with many of the same stories about God that theists are familiar with, and these stories and the characters in them exist "in my head," just as they do for theists; they're just as real to me, in that sense, as they are to theists. The difference, in that regard, between myself and a theist is, in large part, my response to those thoughtforms. I don't proclaim those stories to be real, objective events; they're imaginary to me; they exist only in my head. They're not even memories of mine about the objective world, or at least things that I heard second-hand. It isn't so much that I'm skeptical about them; it's that they're simply not real to me, in any way whatsoever, except in the way that any "mere" story might be real to me. And I have to say that most of the stories about God impress me as being a great deal *less* realistic than many of the stories I encounter, particularly stories meant to describe events from popular history, such as the French Revolution. In short God, seems fictional to me, which is practically just to repeat that I'm an atheist. Even if "God" were to appear before me, in some form, it would just be someone calling themselves "God." In what sense would they *really* be God? They would merely be someone named God. It seems to me that I never could really meet God, because it would always just be someone calling themselves by that name, even if they happened to possess extraordinary powers. I hardly even know what God is supposed to be. There are lots of theological things said about him, but theology seems to me to be little more than a sophisticated form of glossolalia: words that may sound pleasant, but which don't communicate anything clear or coherent. At times, theological descriptions even contain genuine mistakes of reasoning, and if you want to know the truth, I think this is usually the case. So I'm left with a description of a powerful being that, for all I know, might exist, although it seems extremely doubtful, and I don't feel any particular reason to call him God. That, in a nutshell, is why I consider myself an atheist.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2010


    Because I don't believe in the concept of a deity besides myself.

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