Talking about Changes

[gromit]

What do you think? When people are making it a point to talk about changes they wish to make in their lives, they are trying to convince themselves?

I guess I have had several experiences in my life where people have been like "this time, I'm really going to change, I'm really going to get my life together" and maybe they are better for a day or a week or couple weeks but then revert back to old habits. I feel like this would happen with my mom a lot. Since I was a teenager I have memories of her saying that kind of thing. Same with my friend I was posting about in another thread about the abusive relationship.

Seems like when people actually end up making changes in their lives it is a much longer process, and there's no "okay this is the moment that I am really going to change" where they announce it.

Like, I could set a New Years resolution for myself, but that doesn't mean I will change my habits or behaviors. It's almost like I just start doing it, then doing it some more, and more, and then I realize, it is a new lifestyle, realize, this is really what I must value, if I'm dedicating so much time/effort to it.

This post is a little all over the place perhaps. I guess I am wondering... what causes people to change?

I am not sure if it is free will or not, because people make goals all the time or say they are going to change all the time and never end up going anywhere with it. Or maybe it is free will at the deepest level or something. I am remembering something else now too, about letting go of baggage and self-judgement in order to change.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

being brought face to face with an incompatibility in the current way you do something, or believe, and a new reality. Resulting in an awakening consciousness that was not what you knew before. This perhaps acts as a light at the end of a long, or short, tunnel that you cannot help but go toward. To get to that light, you cannot help but change along the way, because your old behaviors will only keep you in the old place. But the change was unforeseen. The primary substance was the thought consciousness that you would really rather be/need to be/are, in the new realm mentally and spiritually, you just need to be there physically. Free will might have very little to do with it. But free will could definitely hinder it.



Just some random thoughts about it.

 

[miss fortune]

changing something that's a major part of oneself is HARD... it's almost like the stages of grief and once you hit bargaining that's where most people just give up... the devil on your shoulder is a convincing motherfucker and if you listen to him you're screwed... "just this one time, it won't hurt... you're doing so well that it proves that you don't have a problem... it's a special occasion and you've GOT to celebrate... you've earned it, so go for it... you'll be ok"

 

[Ginkgo]

Things start to differ when our attitudes differ. We want our environment to change, but the solution is satisfaction. When we see change as a future development, it is already impossible. We progress when we are satisfied taking a single step in a desired direction, rather than hoping to achieve a long-term goal immediately. Charting incremental points of progress helps, but it's useless unless we are truly willing to travel the infinite in between. That is to say, change never comes unless we can make it part of our lives for the rest of our lives. Anything else is more or less a display.

 

[Trunks]

I don't want to change myself even if it for someone else. I'm a bit slow to changes anyway..

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Things start to differ when our attitudes differ. We want our environment to change, but the solution is satisfaction. When we see change as a future development, it is already impossible. We progress when we are satisfied taking a single step in a desired direction, rather than hoping to achieve a long-term goal immediately. Charting incremental points of progress helps, but it's useless unless we are truly willing to travel the infinite in between. That is to say, change never comes unless we can make it part of our lives for the rest of our lives. Anything else is more or less a display.

Yeah, this is a circuitous way (as mine was) of saying the obvious changes that are visible are just the byproduct. The real change happened prior to that, when something Divine beckoned you forth and you had a shift in your mentality which led to an eventual consciousness of where you wanted to go. Because the Light is always good and preferential, it always brings about change because it is worth any annihilation of ego you have to undergo to achieve it.


sorry for that. it just came out.


EDIT: Usually change for me happens because of love. For example, my third son used to have ADHD with impulsivity. I had a baby when it started to really manifest in this son, who was a toddler at the time. I KNEW I needed more patience to deal with my daily life but I have always lacked patience, and I have a hot temper to boot. Both of which are not good when dealing with that sort of situation. I think the turning point for me in knowing I had to change was when I inadvertantly, but directly, killed a kitten we had at the time because I really could not deal with another thing. I started practicing behaviors that were condusive to being more patient and I learned skills (self taught mostly) that really worked for me. Over time, I became more patient and really gained in parenting skills, because so much about parenting (most perhaps) involves patience.

If you like economic theory, it's that the benefit of change outweighs the cost of not changing. Obvious, but true.

 

[RDF]

What do you think? When people are making it a point to talk about changes they wish to make in their lives, they are trying to convince themselves?

I guess I have had several experiences in my life where people have been like "this time, I'm really going to change, I'm really going to get my life together" and maybe they are better for a day or a week or couple weeks but then revert back to old habits. I feel like this would happen with my mom a lot. Since I was a teenager I have memories of her saying that kind of thing. Same with my friend I was posting about in another thread about the abusive relationship.

Seems like when people actually end up making changes in their lives it is a much longer process, and there's no "okay this is the moment that I am really going to change" where they announce it.

Like, I could set a New Years resolution for myself, but that doesn't mean I will change my habits or behaviors. It's almost like I just start doing it, then doing it some more, and more, and then I realize, it is a new lifestyle, realize, this is really what I must value, if I'm dedicating so much time/effort to it.

This post is a little all over the place perhaps. I guess I am wondering... what causes people to change?

I am not sure if it is free will or not, because people make goals all the time or say they are going to change all the time and never end up going anywhere with it. Or maybe it is free will at the deepest level or something. I am remembering something else now too, about letting go of baggage and self-judgement in order to change.

Change is a multi-step process.

I read a self-help book called “Shed Your Stuff, Change Your Life,” by Julie Morgenstern. By “stuff,” she meant anything from clutter to bad habits to bad relationships. And she made the point that when it comes time to shed your “stuff,” you need to figure out why you needed that “stuff” in the first place, and then figure out what you want to replace it with (i.e., presumably newer, healthier “stuff”). Otherwise, there is a good chance you will just fall back into old habits or find other habits that are just as bad.

IOW, it’s not enough to clear out the old stuff and suddenly have a lot of free time and free space in your life. If you haven’t figured out why you cluttered up your life with problems in the first place, then sooner or later you’ll probably clutter your life up again with other similar (or the same) problems.

 

[WALMART]

Over time, you are going to do what the normal mind says you are going to do.

Wanting to change alters the normal mind's path.

 

[WALMART]

Over time, you are going to do what the normal mind says you are going to do.

Wanting to change alters the normal mind's path.

 

[Mole]

what causes people to change?

It takes three weeks to form a habit.

Each day for three weeks we consciously carry out the new habit, and after three weeks the habit becomes second nature, and we don't have to think about it anymore.

So the three weeks need to be consciously prepared for, and consciously planned for, and consciously carried out.

It must be a full hearted effort for three weeks - and then we have a brand new habit.

 

[Thursday]

if a person vocally repeats the "change" then its an affirmation that they really don't want to change. But if they say it once, and make small but consistent efforts towards the goal, then and only then do you have a winner in life.

 

[SilkRoad]

What do you think? When people are making it a point to talk about changes they wish to make in their lives, they are trying to convince themselves?

I guess I have had several experiences in my life where people have been like "this time, I'm really going to change, I'm really going to get my life together" and maybe they are better for a day or a week or couple weeks but then revert back to old habits. I feel like this would happen with my mom a lot. Since I was a teenager I have memories of her saying that kind of thing. Same with my friend I was posting about in another thread about the abusive relationship.

Seems like when people actually end up making changes in their lives it is a much longer process, and there's no "okay this is the moment that I am really going to change" where they announce it.

Like, I could set a New Years resolution for myself, but that doesn't mean I will change my habits or behaviors. It's almost like I just start doing it, then doing it some more, and more, and then I realize, it is a new lifestyle, realize, this is really what I must value, if I'm dedicating so much time/effort to it.

This post is a little all over the place perhaps. I guess I am wondering... what causes people to change?

I am not sure if it is free will or not, because people make goals all the time or say they are going to change all the time and never end up going anywhere with it. Or maybe it is free will at the deepest level or something. I am remembering something else now too, about letting go of baggage and self-judgement in order to change.

I've wondered about this... Might even have posted a similar thread. What gets me is when people tell you they've already changed or are in the middle of the changes, and nothing of the kind turns out to be true, or they revert immediately.

I think there's a point about wanting to convince yourself, and it's also true that if they talk about the changes all the time it's often not such a good sign - you have to just DO it ultimately.

Someone pointed out to me that some people (type-wise, it's probably somewhat more of an ExxP thing, sort of thinking aloud, or generally an extrovert thing, but I don't think they have a monopoly by any means) do this "I've changed or am making changes, it's a done deal" thing to sort of...project the image of themselves that they want to achieve. Well, some may do it just to be manipulative, but I think for some people they find that saying it out loud is their way of sort of actualizing it and making it seem real. But it does not mean the changes will happen.

You have to really want to, and then put it into practice and keep it up. I think that's what it comes down to. It's not easy particularly in certain circumstances. I think everyone has varying success in this area as in others, but some will talk about it forever and never actually do it.

 

[gromit]

Things start to differ when our attitudes differ. We want our environment to change, but the solution is satisfaction. When we see change as a future development, it is already impossible. We progress when we are satisfied taking a single step in a desired direction, rather than hoping to achieve a long-term goal immediately. Charting incremental points of progress helps, but it's useless unless we are truly willing to travel the infinite in between. That is to say, change never comes unless we can make it part of our lives for the rest of our lives. Anything else is more or less a display.

OMG yeah that is totally true. If it is just some abstract thing you are not going to go anywhere with it. The change starts to become real once you are motivated by doing the baby steps as much as you are by the ultimate goal, maybe even moreso.

Yeah, this is a circuitous way (as mine was) of saying the obvious changes that are visible are just the byproduct. The real change happened prior to that, when something Divine beckoned you forth and you had a shift in your mentality which led to an eventual consciousness of where you wanted to go. Because the Light is always good and preferential, it always brings about change because it is worth any annihilation of ego you have to undergo to achieve it.

Yeah a "change of heart," maybe we aren't even 100% aware of it ourselves when it happens, just when we start making those baby steps like [MENTION=8031]Ginkgo[/MENTION] says.

Usually change for me happens because of love. For example, my third son used to have ADHD with impulsivity. I had a baby when it started to really manifest in this son, who was a toddler at the time. I KNEW I needed more patience to deal with my daily life but I have always lacked patience, and I have a hot temper to boot. Both of which are not good when dealing with that sort of situation. I think the turning point for me in knowing I had to change was when I inadvertantly, but directly, killed a kitten we had at the time because I really could not deal with another thing. I started practicing behaviors that were condusive to being more patient and I learned skills (self taught mostly) that really worked for me. Over time, I became more patient and really gained in parenting skills, because so much about parenting (most perhaps) involves patience.

If you like economic theory, it's that the benefit of change outweighs the cost of not changing. Obvious, but true.

Like a startling wake up call of what will happen if you continue down your current path without making any changes...

 

[gromit]

It takes three weeks to form a habit.

Each day for three weeks we consciously carry out the new habit, and after three weeks the habit becomes second nature, and we don't have to think about it anymore.

So the three weeks need to be consciously prepared for, and consciously planned for, and consciously carried out.

It must be a full hearted effort for three weeks - and then we have a brand new habit.

This is probably true, but not what I'm asking about. I'm wondering, what is it that causes some people to actually stick with it for three weeks, and others to give up after four days or whatever. And besides, some changes are more than just a simple habit, like trying to remember to floss your teeth twice a day or something. Like with my mom.

 

[wolfy]

I've read that talking about changes has a different effect on motivation depending on your temperament. For some people saying it increases commitment, for others the feedback they get is reward in itself and takes away from follow through. I think overall I am the latter and that it is the better way for me to approach things.

 

[Mole]

This is probably true, but not what I'm asking about. I'm wondering, what is it that causes some people to actually stick with it for three weeks, and others to give up after four days or whatever. And besides, some changes are more than just a simple habit, like trying to remember to floss your teeth twice a day or something. Like with my mom.

Most of us don't know we are only three weeks away from a new habit or a successful change.

However we need to focus on one change at a time.

So we must consciously focus each day for three weeks, then our unconscious takes over and we have a successful change.

However we live in a society of instant gratification, with so many distractions, many of us are driven to ADHD.

So men and women of self discipline are rare and so most give up after four days, if only they knew they had only seventeen days to go before success.

 

[UniqueMixture]

At some point you just have to be real with yourself about what you really want and take a leap of faith (with proper planning of course). They say you will not be successful unless you're happy with your life on a consistent basis. I definitely believe this is true. It's about finding out what's going to motivate YOU to get your ass into gear EVERY day.

 

[Mole]

At some point you just have to be real with yourself about what you really want and take a leap of faith (with proper planning of course). They say you will not be successful unless you're happy with your life on a consistent basis. I definitely believe this is true. It's about finding out what's going to motivate YOU to get your ass into gear EVERY day.

But only for three weeks.

 

[Rail Tracer]

I guess I am wondering... what causes people to change?

When what is being done is truly incompatible with what should be done (not just talk.) In otherwords, when what is being done no longer serves a reasonable (and often is a detrimental) purpose. However, changing this way is probably one of the most extreme forms when it comes to change. Something bad/extreme/horrible happens. Say, like the folks you see on T.V. drinking and driving and killing his/her friend on the passenger seat. Or say, a person finds out that he/she is close to getting diabetes or has gotten a heart attack and needs to change his/her eating habits. Many of these changes are forced upon changes that "need" to be changed because of an event and it turns into a lifetime commitment, or else.

For the people that talk about change and only do it for a week, it is because the commitment is not strong enough. Telling other people is to try to keep that commitment. Now YOU know what I am trying to commit to "X", and if you see that I am failing YOU know... and it would make me look bad to fail. The problem is, like we've talked about, the commitment isn't strong enough. Free-will will only bring you that far, without making the commitment a very part of you, you'll just end up forgetting it in a matter of days or months. It is why so many people who make the commitment on New Years Eve are bound to fail (unless the commitment is something easy to do.) They literally have to almost live and breathe the commitment to get anywhere.

Not changing is like smoking addiction, it is only easier to not change until you find out that you won't have long to live if you keep smoking the way you do.

 

[UniqueMixture]

But only for three weeks.

Be quiet disembodied consciousness that only exists on the internet