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  1. #31
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    8w9 sp/sx


    @ Blank God's role in morality is to remind that its not a you-versus-you mentality that we should childishly obligate ourselves with, but a harmonious one that involves both parties towards a common goal. Petty arguments and the like would be moot if we but put our ego aside and listen to what people were really saying and communicate something higher and harder to achieve than "good and evil" : Love.
    I N V I C T U S

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2010


    are good things good because god says they are?
    or are good things good because they are in fact good, and god naturally aligns himself with what is good, and therefore that's what he says?

    good, without context, is meaningless. without bad, there is no good.

    are bad things bad because the devil thinks they are bad?
    or are bad things bad because they are in fact bad, and the devil just naturally aligns himself with what is bad?

    if you answer these questions in the context of one another, you'll get a convincing answer for yourself.

    here is my attempt. since i'm human, obviously i'll take the extremes of goodness and badness in the attempt to form a human thought useful to who i am. this, i guess, gets ugly, and it's hard for me to type it out...because i put myself in cognitive places i rather not be.

    the devil doesn't say what's bad. he can't just claim "behavior x is bad, because it is bad". why? if god said "behavior x is good", then it wouldn't matter what the devil had said, for we know that the devil is supposed to go against god. so the word of god trumps that of the devil, especially when they are in opposition.

    so, the devil naturally aligns himself with what is bad. which suggests then, that the value of the goodness or badness lies within the thing itself.

    things are good because they are good. why is this a bad belief? god, being the embodiment of good, would never not be aligned with what is good anyway, and really, isn't it god's purpose not to provide a sense of what is good or bad, but rather to allow you to provide that sense for yourself? or choose not to? that is, you either succumb to the temptation of the fruit, or you don't? and either way, since we are human after all, (in that we all must die), he knows some will and some won't? and his purpose is to love and guide rather than to not? and he would rather us do good rather than seek good anyway? for surely doing good is above seeking good...seeking good is aims at pleasing nothing but you. doing good, however, is more inline with what is Godly. (Capitalization emphasized this time..) he knows what is good, and he knows what isn't, that doesn't mean he dictates what is good and what is bad to you, just that he's aware of knowledge that you aren't...but it isn't his purpose to tell you what is good, rather, it's his purpose to guide you to what is good.

    so, is something good because God says it's good? my answer: when God says something is good, it's good.

    is a thing good because it is good? my answer: when God says something is good, it's good.

    i feel shameful...weird feeling.

  3. #33
    . Blank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009


    @xisnotx I think you skip over some points, and seem to draw the conclusion that everything has to be good or bad. You skip over that which either has no moral value. Beyond that, we still don't know why something is good, other than because God says so. Is there no other reason for it? Is there not a rationality behind goodness that man can follow? If there isn't, then I defer to Mill's argument that it would make man unable to do good for the sake of doing good, and he would merely act out of prudence to either gain God's favor or avoid punishment.

    Beyond that, I have one fundamental question and a series of questions which follow it: If God is inseparable from goodness, would he do something bad? (I think it's important to note the difference between would and could in this sentence. God could feasibly do anything, but if he's perfectly good, then he would choose not to.)

    If sins are bad, then would God, a perfectly good being, create a flawed being that would do bad? I would think not, otherwise I would begin to question whether or not God is "perfectly good."
    Last edited by Blank; 07-31-2012 at 11:56 PM.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

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