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Is suicide justified?

prplchknz

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I don't agree that it's a selfish thing though. A lot of times in the mind of a suicidal person, they see it the opposite, as in 'They'd be better off without me', in which case they interpret the act of suicide upon themselves as a selfless act, ridding the burden of anyone they might know of their presence. They see the world in an entirely different view, and if you're younger, you have less capacity to handle such emotions and thoughts that you may be more likely to consider suicide as your only option.

:yes:
 

Unkindloving

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I'm halfsies on the matter. In life, people go through many stages of mental and emotional growth. It's hard to say that their situation or perspective won't change for the better, which is where spontaneous suicide doesn't sit right with me.
Most of the people that I know who have contemplated suicide, or even gone so far as to make threats or attempts, are all alive and well presently. They've surpassed that stage of their life or that mindset and they press on. This isn't to say that the situation/perspective will change for everyone.

For some people, life just isn't cutting it for them. One of my friends has calmly talked about suicide to me for the past 6 years. He has felt the same way at a constant and, although things go well for him in life, he is still indifferent toward it. He isn't depressed or emotionally compromised, but he feels that life can't satiate him (relevant to me, but intj). I can't argue with that and I would find it more selfish to demand he change his opinion. If someone has assessed it, allowed time to pass, and isn't emotionally compromised, it's one of the few times where I can respect their decision on the matter.
So while this friend is still alive and well, if he takes that route at any point, I won't be bitter or angry with him.

I also believe in some degree of selfishness. We're all selfish in this sense. "No, I don't want to live and appease others" "No, live even if it doesn't appease you". Both sides are a different kind of selfishness. You can't condemn someone for selfishness if you are also selfish in your desires for them. It's a touchy, grey area that can have a variety of factors involved.
 

Noon

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It's always painful when someone dies, no matter how they die. But calling someone selfish and encouraging them to live only to make other people happy is the worst kind of burden to put on someone.

Yeah, I don't mean to sound like a downer, but that is easily as selfish as committing the act is [presumably] widely considered. Laying more guilt on someone who is already guilt ridden seems an ill advised thing to do as well.

I live on my own terms and I will hopefully die on my own terms, barring any unexpected surprises. Hunter S. Thompson had it right.

Yes, another gem. It's a bit odd that so many are passionately pro a person's right to control their lives and bodies in certain ways (such as abortion rights) yet equally opposed to the right to control it in others (such as suicide and/or assisted suicide). But perhaps that's a poor comparison.

But yes, I agree that it is particularly tragic and heartbreaking when a child resorts to those measures because they don't have complete understanding of the temporary nature of most problems or emotions.

And yet I agree with this too. I don't like to hear about people, especially young people, taking their own lives because they are feeling trapped. Ideally, no one should have to take their own life. But realistically, if someone does decide it's what they really want, I wonder how much of a right I have to forbid it.

My first assumption would be that the person isn't in a clear state of mind and of course I would be inclined to get them immediate help.

But what happens when someone appears to be in a clear and rational state of mind, even providing a solid and well thought out argument in support of their decision? In situations like those, I wonder how much of the knee-jerk "suicide is irrational" response is truly logical and how much is only cultural/personal bias.
 

rav3n

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This hasn't been a personal consideration but if people want to commit suicide, it's their call to make. No one should have the right to interfere through any form of coercion.
 

Amethyst

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If there is one safe way out, it is death. One safe way to death is suicide.

Who determines that there is only one safe way out of it though? And what do you mean by 'safe'? Safe from yourself?
 

INTP

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why is this topic in sexuality/mature forum?
 

miss fortune

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the worst is when you can logically point out how other people's lives would be better if you managed to make sure that your death looked like an accident... life insurance would pay off student loans and leave them with a little extra for a vacation or something... I just never managed to find a way that would look enough like an accident when wanting to do so :blush: :laugh:
 

Nicodemus

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Who determines that there is only one safe way out of it though? And what do you mean by 'safe'? Safe from yourself?
I am not saying there is but one way out: I am saying that death is a safe way out, because once you are dead, you can no longer and never again be depressed. You cannot even worry about all the opportunities you spurn by ending your life.
 

Amethyst

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I am not saying there is but one way out: I am saying that death is a safe way out, because once you are dead, you can no longer and never again be depressed. You cannot even worry about all the opportunities you spurn by ending your life.

So, by 'safe', you mean safe from suffering from depression. Interesting...many times people determine 'safe' to be protected from physical harm or death, such as myself.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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I apologize for not addressing each post singularly, but there are quite a few responses so I will give you the thought that prevades overall. A what if scenario: We can only presume what happens after death, this I believe is true and so I ask you this. What if you had committed suicide and on the other end of the spectrum you did reach a state of enlightenment? Is suicide inherently bad, or is it bad because over time we don't wish for the attachments to disappear? I do not mean to insult anyone... This is strictly hypothetical.

Oh, and INTP. It could go any many sections, but I considered this topic Mature just as well as Spiritual. This is just my opinion however.
 

miss fortune

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at a certain point concerns for what lies beyond death are moot... the real concern is to just to make your mind shut up... even if there IS no afterlife the idea of nothingness can sound really peaceful- when you're being driven crazy by your own mind spiritual repercussions are a distant second to mental peace :)
 

Vie

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I find suicide to be a very comforting thought, in the sense that I can assert control over my death if ever need be.

I've found that I become depressed and think about suicide during times where I feel as though I'm spiraling out of control, in various situations of which I'm helpless and nothing I can do can change the outcome.

I don't think that suicide is inherently bad and I feel as though it is, however cold this may seem, a fact of life. I wouldn't ever wish someone to kill themselves, or feel the despair that often leads to such, but sometimes people's souls have died long before their body. It seems unfair for judging someone who ended their pain and suffering. Mental and emotional pain I feel is the worst over physical, but that's just me.

Often the only thing that keeps me from offing myself is the attachments I have with people. I feel as though the pain that it would cause a few select people isn't worth the supposed relief that comes from ending it all.
 

prplchknz

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at a certain point concerns for what lies beyond death are moot... the real concern is to just to make your mind shut up... even if there IS no afterlife the idea of nothingness can sound really peaceful- when you're being driven crazy by your own mind spiritual repercussions are a distant second to mental peace :)

yeah i don't really think about spirtual repercussions either it's to stop the pain, make everyone's life better, realizing that whatever i do in life is going to be a failure, that the world will be better off without me. even if they don't believe and never will. that's my thought process.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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at a certain point concerns for what lies beyond death are moot... the real concern is to just to make your mind shut up... even if there IS no afterlife the idea of nothingness can sound really peaceful- when you're being driven crazy by your own mind spiritual repercussions are a distant second to mental peace :)

Agreed; but what is your impression of it (suicide) in the first place?
 

miss fortune

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Agreed; but what is your impression of it (suicide) in the first place?

I have always beleived in reincarnation, even before hearing about the concept, so killing yourself never really seemed like an END to everything to me in a spiritual sense... more of being a reset button. The impact on others is the concern in my book :yes:
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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An addendum to the first question. Do you think it lessens the pain or increases the pain to leave a note describing why they did so? (I assure you I'm not planning to attempt, I'm just seeing if talking about it will quiet the thought however unserious it may be).
 

Vie

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I have always beleived in reincarnation, even before hearing about the concept, so killing yourself never really seemed like an END to everything to me in a spiritual sense... more of being a reset button. The impact on others is the concern in my book :yes:

I can't say that I believe in reincarnation, and it worries me to question what does come after death.
I would say that the peace of suicide is an enticing thought at times. I will agree with you and say that the impact that it will have, whether positive or negative, is the concern I have as well.

As much as I feel that I am burdening the people around me and bringing them into my black hole of misery, there is this small thought that me dead would cause them great pain. But at times, I feel as though that pain would fade over time -- where as continuing to burden them is pain without an end date. The latter seems worse.
 
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