• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Is suicide justified?

gromit

likes this
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
6,508
I have wanted to die before. But never enough to actually make myself do it or even plan it. I think I was pretty depressed or that my perceptions were kind of skewed to think that that would be the solution, but I guess I just felt like anything else except dying would take too much energy.

I haven't felt that way so overwhelmingly for a couple years though.
 

Edgar

Nerd King Usurper
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
4,266
MBTI Type
INTJ
Instinctual Variant
sx
Whatever meaning we may contrive from our existence, so as to give our lives purpose, will become bereft of itself when we no longer exist. To put it another way, perhaps I could find a cure to cancer, but what's the point if the patient I've cured will die of natural causes regardless?

Take this cancer concept and apply it to all of mankind and our ideals, goals, etc. and all progress becomes inefficient... It's like trying to stop Niagra Falls from falling, with a pair of chopsticks... And perhaps even, and I say this with no intention of offending anyone, romanticizing this futile act is absurdly stupid.

And no, I don't think happiness is a sufficient enough reason to live or to continue living.

What is the point of doing anything, then? Specifically, what was the point of you logging to TypoC and putting an effort into making a post about how doing anything is ultimately pointless?
 

Saslou

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
4,910
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Whatever meaning we may contrive from our existence, so as to give our lives purpose, will become bereft of itself when we no longer exist. To put it another way, perhaps I could find a cure to cancer, but what's the point if the patient I've cured will die of natural causes regardless?

Take this cancer concept and apply it to all of mankind and our ideals, goals, etc. and all progress becomes inefficient... It's like trying to stop Niagra Falls from falling, with a pair of chopsticks... And perhaps even, and I say this with no intention of offending anyone, romanticizing this futile act is absurdly stupid.

And no, I don't think happiness is a sufficient enough reason to live or to continue living.

OK .. I see where you are coming from and thanks for replying.

Another perspective .. Possibly.
An act of pleasure should not be obtained a second time round as we are going to die anyway?
The bond between mother/father and child should not be obtained as people die?

Do you seriously consider that life is futile?

Again, curious :)
 

Arthur Schopenhauer

What is, is.
Joined
May 1, 2010
Messages
1,158
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5
What is the point of doing anything, then? Specifically, what was the point of you logging to TypoC and putting an effort into making a post about how doing anything is ultimately pointless?

As I stated before, I am ironic. Life is not static, so neither am I.
 

Arthur Schopenhauer

What is, is.
Joined
May 1, 2010
Messages
1,158
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5
Another perspective .. Possibly.
An act of pleasure should not be obtained a second time round as we are going to die anyway?
The bond between mother/father and child should not be obtained as people die?

I've talked to someone about this before, that happiness should be maximized before death, and I really have to agree that it should. It's the most rational thing to do, currently.

Do you seriously consider that life is futile?

Yes.
 

Such Irony

Honor Thy Inferior
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
5,059
MBTI Type
INtp
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I've contemplated it during mild depressive episodes but I've never been severly depressed enough to seriously consider following through on it. It would take some really drastic life event for me to actually attempt suicide. I could see myself committing suicide if I had some horrible physical ailment that left me in excruciating pain all the time with no means of treatment or if I had some medical condition that left me essentially an invalid who was dependent on others for every little thing and it looks like there would be no cure anywhere in the foreseeable future.
 

FakePlasticAlice

New member
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
403
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
I feel quite vulnerable regarding this post, but i think it's nessecary. I don't want to hide behind the shame i feel regarding this situation when i think the healthy and more helpful thing to do would be to open up and hope something good comes from it.

With that said, yes - i have contemplated suicide, attempted, and surprisingly survived.

I could go on for hours as to what finally led me to that moment..but to be brief and not strip my soul bare..it began when i was 8 years old. A combination of emotional abuse, constant bullying, abandonment, mental illness and a murder led me to the only safe place i knew..deep inside myself. Death was the only thing that held comfort for me and i thought about and planned my suicide for years. Even when i was happy i still wanted to die. I thought life just wasn't for me and i did not want to continue experiencing it.


I truly believe that is the case for some people.. i am not anti or pro suicide..but i do believe in freedom of choice and it is a person's life and they can decide to take it if they so chose - ONLY if they are clear of mind, an adult who hasn't given their life to raising another, and there is no mental illness burried within screaming at them to end it all.

"He who does not accept and respect those who want to reject life does not truly accept and respect life itself."

Thomas Szasz


Although, while i believe in that freedom, i do think that most people who believe they truly want to die - that life just isn't for them - are underestimating their will to live. Until you have experienced that moment when you finally chose death over life, you will NEVER understand if death is truly what you wanted.

I only had a few moments to shockingly realize how i really felt, but it was the biggest wake up call and the saddest moment of my life.
I wasn't afraid
...but i was so full of deep regret and remorse
I never ever knew..
I had a will to live..
And in those fleeting moments..
I clung as hard as i could..
To life.

I slipped into unconsciousness knowing i made the ultimate mistake.

I wonder how many people have died knowing they made this mistake.



I never knew i had it me. Burried inside was a will to live, a want to live. I'm not "cured", i think i will always struggle, but when i feel that old familiar itch i cling to the worst feeling in the world.. that moment of deep regret i can never bare to experience again.

I believe in one's freedom of choice and respect it, and i think it's horribly selfish to ask someone stay in the world to keep you from being hurt when they really do not want to be here and life just isn't for them - and only they can decide that. However, with that said, i also do not think you will ever know 100% until you've put your plan into motion and it is out of your hands.... and then it's too late to take it back.

If you feel that will to live, and you are lucky, you will eventually return to consciousness without serious damage. But you will never come out of it as you were. Part of it will always stick with you. You don't come back "normal".

Until i can turn my negative experience into a positive one, that will remain the day i died..



"Most people, in committing a suicidal act, are just as muddled as when they do anything important under emotional stress. Carefully planned acts of suicide are as rare as carefully planned acts of homicide."

"It is not a thing to do while one is not in one's best mind. Never kill yourself while you are suicidal."

Edwin Shneidman



(If anyone is struggling, want's to talk, someone to listen, or just a friend please feel free to pm me.)
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
I have thought of committing suicide. I think the strangest aspect of it was that I had no real reason to do so. I was depressed, I was done with life, but I could never find an actual reason, something worth it's salt for such a strong action. That's what kept me from every attempting. I couldn't find the reasoning behind it and so here I am.

The above I suppose is an example of "A permanent solution to a temporary problem". The need for a logical reason to do so kept me from doing it. I suppose I wasn't that bad off if I could still think rationally, though to even think about it to begin without a reason is rather irrational.
 
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
1,858
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
54
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
Good work everyone.

Thinking about the lifespan has its advantages. Divorcing oneself from much of what people associate with normal living, what is endorsed, promoted, expected, to be that little kid fighting waves all afternoon, taking swipes at nothing, hollering, being pummeled into the muddy sand only to stand up, impassioned with focus, your balance between stoicism and swagger, just to get after those goddamn waves again. Goddamn fucking mother nature. Set the fucking example, even if you're aware that nothing's worth the effort.

I'll remember you when our planet's a carved out skull and the fam's hang bangin it up near the north pole.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
The only time I would ever even consider suicide is if I was like ...75% burned to death, or had half of my body chopped off and my guts were hanging out ... you know, like merciful death, the kind of situation where I'd also considering merciful killing of someone else, not just myself.

I've known several people who've committed suicide and it causes so much pain and discord among the people you leave behind that I can't see it as anything as either A) an act of severe mental illness or B) an act of extreme selfishness. Either way, even looking at it in terms of myself, I've seen how my life can change and turn around, how fucked up situations have changed and then I've had luck and happiness and something completely different. Life is just like that. That's how it is.

Even when I'm depressed, I love myself too much to commit suicide. I love the human being that I am and the gifts and skills and potential that I have. Any time I would think of killing myself, I just think of killing myself as a child or a teenager. Would I do that? No, of course not. So why would I rob the world of this human being now?

I'm a de facto atheist, too, I'm not religious or anything, I just see how every person makes a difference, how we all affect one another and all the amazing things we can leave behind ... like people we've given birth to or houses we've built or hey, the cure for cancer like A.S. was saying...and THAT MATTERS. I think human happiness matters.

I think there's a beauty in just being alive, you know? That's the only reason I could have even considered ISFP as a type at one point...I'm just happy to see life...to see cats and trees and grass and other living things, human or otherwise. Life is beautiful, especially when that life can be provided with maximum health and happiness.

Life *is* the point.
 

Edgar

Nerd King Usurper
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
4,266
MBTI Type
INTJ
Instinctual Variant
sx
And no, I don't think happiness is a sufficient enough reason to live or to continue living.

Sounds like the words of a man who hasn't felt happiness in a long time (or ever).

Anyway, I'm off to some other thread. I don't want y'alls depression rubbing off on me.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,562
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
The only time I would ever even consider suicide is if I was like ...75% burned to death, or had half of my body chopped off and my guts were hanging out ... you know, like merciful death, the kind of situation where I'd also considering merciful killing of someone else, not just myself.

I've known several people who've committed suicide and it causes so much pain and discord among the people you leave behind that I can't see it as anything as either A) an act of severe mental illness or B) an act of extreme selfishness. Either way, even looking at it in terms of myself, I've seen how my life can change and turn around, how fucked up situations have changed and then I've had luck and happiness and something completely different. Life is just like that. That's how it is.

I pretty much agree with Marm's comments. I know somebody whose son committed suicide a year ago. It does a great deal of harm to all of those around the individual. I've never considered it personally though I dated someone for three years who did. At the beginning of the relationship she explained that she had these thoughts about all different kinds of ways she could do it. I was shocked and we did spend a fair bit of time talking about it. After a couple months of dating, it sort of all just went away. I assume that she was experiencing some kind of depressive episode and the change in environment and circumstances somehow helped her to change her outlook. If I knew now what I knew then, I'd insist on her getting some help. I have no idea as to what happened to her after we broke up but there is a fear always in the back of my mind that these impulses may have returned to her at some later point.
 

Arthur Schopenhauer

What is, is.
Joined
May 1, 2010
Messages
1,158
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5
I've known several people who've committed suicide and it causes so much pain and discord among the people you leave behind that I can't see it as anything as either A) an act of severe mental illness or B) an act of extreme selfishness.

I think it is much more selfish to force someone to live based upon how you feel about them. It's their choice in the end.

We should be completely entitled to our own bodies, I would think.

Sounds like the words of a man who hasn't felt happiness in a long time (or ever).

Not really.
 
A

A window to the soul

Guest
Have you contemplated the act of suicide. What meaning it has and what self-perception and view on life could ultimately lead to self-demise as a conclusion?.

I want to avoid giving any specifics just for the sake of an open discussion.

I would fight negative thoughts with everything I have before I would submit. Suicide is the weak, easy way out. Suicide doesn't solve any problems, it hurts people that care, and God despises it. Somewhere in this world there's someone that cares. There are better options. It does get better.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
I think it is much more selfish to force someone to live based upon how you feel about them. It's their choice in the end.

We should be completely entitled to our own bodies, I would think.

No man is an island. It's probably an understatement to say that there's a fundamental difference in the way you and I see the world.

However, if someone is knocking on death's door and is in extreme *physical* pain, say half-dead of the advanced stages of AIDS, I don't begrudge them their right to die. That's why I pointed out mercy killing.

Otherwise, I'm too full of life. Even if I was dying I'd probably try to fight it. I want life. I'm willful like that.
 

Arthur Schopenhauer

What is, is.
Joined
May 1, 2010
Messages
1,158
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5
It's probably an understatement to say that there's a fundamental difference in the way you and I see the world.

Perhaps. Sadly, I can't discuss this topic without being called a nihilist or depressive by those who disagree with me, in an attempt to deflate my opinion. (perhaps unintentionally, by some, nonetheless...)

:emo:
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
Perhaps. Sadly, I can't discuss this topic without being called a nihilist or depressive by those who disagree with me, in an attempt to deflate my opinion. (perhaps unintentionally, by some, nonetheless...)

:emo:

D'awww I :heart: emo INTJs.

I'm not trying to deflate your opinion. I just disagree with you. Your stance does appear to be nihilism, I say that as an observation, not an insult.
 

Arthur Schopenhauer

What is, is.
Joined
May 1, 2010
Messages
1,158
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5
D'awww I :heart: emo INTJs.

I'm not trying to deflate your opinion. I just disagree with you. Your stance does appear to be nihilism, I say that as an observation, not an insult.

Heehee.

No, you haven't caused me any trouble. *cough*JockEdgar*hackoohoorph*

I am only an existential nihilist.
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
Staff member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
14,497
MBTI Type
INFJ
I believe that one's approach to suicide depends entirely on whether you believe

1) We were created in the image of God, we are accountable to Him for the way we live, and any life (whether our own or other people's) is not ours to take away. Because animals were created to be under people's care, we are expected to treat them humanely, but killing an animal and killing a person are considered very different things.

2) We evolved by time and chance and a series of a fortunate accidents and only the fittest survive. We are all masters of our own destiny and however we see fit to spend our lives or the lives of those around us is up to us. Because man and animals both evolved from the same sources, the value of an animal's life vs that of a person is really a judgement call, not a foregone conclusion.

Of course there is a more moderate stance in the middle, but I don't really think it makes a lot of sense philosophically. (This is also why to me it doesn't make sense when religious groups try to combine an evolutionary stance with the Biblical account. In doing so, you are throwing out the philosophical underpinnings).

At this time, North American societies have come to a basic agreement because there is a big divide on this issue. As long as we are not infringing on other people's freedoms, we may do as we please and we should also try to be thoughtful of the people around us to care about us.

It seems that many cultures have agreed that out and out murder is wrong in some sense (whether philosophically or in practicality) and there is a need for laws to prevent chaos from happening. However, it is extremely hard to build any kind of effective law about either murder or suicide unless everyone is agreed on which of the two primary worldviews people are going to hold. In North America in the past few hundred years, the majority of people held or at least agreed with a Christian worldview, which became the basis for lawmaking. Now, because people largely have shifted to an evolutionary worldview, their belief system has also changed. Many are torn between still making laws that are influenced by that worldview, but without its foundation, which is illogical or else making laws that reflect the second system. The implications of that system however, demand a bigger shift than some feel comfortable with. Because there are no absolutes that are unchangeable, our standard for deciding on laws then depends primarily on the most prevalent attitudes of the day. The words right and wrong no longer really have any relevance since there is no authority higher than ourselves which determines what that might be.

Really, I don't see A.S.'s stance as being anything but a reflection of his worldview. Many people still have a drive to live, whether or not they really have a reason to or not because of what they wish to accomplish, who they love, or are loved by. As he's said, he's not actively pursuing dying right now, he just doesn't see a real point in living.

I strongly disagree with his outlook, but will freely admit that my conclusions about life are based on an entirely different premise, so it is not surprising that we end up in different camps.
 
Top