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Is suicide justified?

Qlip

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That's not true there are plenty of people who consider taking their own lives who takes other peoples opinion.

I doubt it. What people usually are looking for is some sort of emotional proof that somebody else cares or just getting shocked out of their framework, that often comes in the form of somebody having an interest enough to state an opinion. The content doesn't matter as much as the connection.
 

King sns

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I know sometimes life is really really really impossible to bear. I mean there is a cracking point for any human soul. However, I always justify in my head that we don't really live that long anyway, we really don't. I have trouble with the idea of totally losing all hope in anything bright for the future.
 

Lexicon

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I think in cases of the people medically diagnosed w/terminal illness, and are essentially in hospice care- waiting to die, bedridden & in constant pain, suicide would be justified. I'd support assisted suicide to make the process easier for the people involved. But it'd have to be someone definitely terminally ill, like, there's no chance for recovery.

I mean, we don't condemn people for putting animals down when they reach that point.. I'd say humans deserve that same mercy without fear or guilt at the end.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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But sometimes they don't have much pain. And most of the time there is a checking-out process where their minds really seemed to be leaving their bodies....You would want to rob them of that departure process? I think euthanasia is cruel. And has fatalistic ramifications we do not even care to fathom, much less consider. Why does everyone think hurrying death is so beneficial and superior to allowing the normal process to unfold??
 

Lexicon

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But sometimes they don't have much pain. And most of the time there is a checking-out process where their minds really seemed to be leaving their bodies....You would want to rob them of that departure process? I think euthanasia is cruel. And has fatalistic ramifications we do not even care to fathom, much less consider. Why does everyone think hurrying death is so beneficial and superior to allowing the normal process to unfold??

That's why I specified in the cases where they are in constant pain. I've known people who were on the brink of death for ages- every moment was agonizing to be conscious. Everytime one man stumbled an inch back from the brink, he'd awaken struggling to take one single breath, openly wishing this last bout was finally his time. In cases like these, they're often pumped with morphine and sedatives until they just.. slip away. There's no mental process occurring, at all in those situations. So one could say that too, is defying ''nature.'' Other times, medications to alleviate pain are inaccessible, for whatever reason. And people who want to end that pain, often will, on their own, anyway. Having doctor-assisted suicide available at least removes some of the trauma and stigma associated with suicides of this nature. Ultimately, it's not up to any of us to decide how a sick, dying person ought to experience their last moments alive, regardless of personally held subjective belief systems & ideals.
 

1487610420

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Ultimately, it's not up to any of us to decide how a sick, dying person ought to experience their last moments alive, regardless of personally held subjective values and ideals.

Except passing that and other kinds of judgment is exactly what a 1st world society does, to keep the wheels turning.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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^People should die a natural death. Whatever that is. I disagree with assisted suicide. I also disagree with pumping with meds to alleviate pain. When one experiences pain, one's endogenous endorphins kick in anyway, producing--I'd make an educated guess at--the ideal state for some sort of sub-conscious reflective state, passing from this side to the other. The entire process is necessary. To cut into any part of that is not ideal, and weak.
 

Lexicon

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^People should die a natural death. Whatever that is. I disagree with assisted suicide. I also disagree with pumping with meds to alleviate pain. When one experiences pain, one's endogenous endorphins kick in anyway, producing--I'd make an educated guess at--the ideal state for some sort of sub-conscious reflective state, passing from this side to the other. The entire process is necessary. To cut into any part of that is not ideal, and weak.

Please expound on how your guess is educated.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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Mostly because I am intuitive about the natural processes of life, and coming into this world. I believe one can extrapolate similarities to death with this as well.

I have also seen some of this from working at nursing homes, and though I have only been witness to a handful of people passing on into the next realm, I can say what I have seen corroborates what my intuition told me was true.

Not to mention animals' and pets' deaths....No, I do not have my pets put down. They die natural deaths and they are beautiful in their own way.
 

The Outsider

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I think in cases of the people medically diagnosed w/terminal illness, and are essentially in hospice care- waiting to die, bedridden & in constant pain, suicide would be justified.

Why is that not the case for people who are not sick and in pain?
 

Lexicon

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^People should die a natural death. Whatever that is. I disagree with assisted suicide. I also disagree with pumping with meds to alleviate pain. When one experiences pain, one's endogenous endorphins kick in anyway, producing--I'd make an educated guess at--the ideal state for some sort of sub-conscious reflective state, passing from this side to the other. The entire process is necessary. To cut into any part of that is not ideal, and weak.

I find it quite ironic how you attempted to argue in past threads how you don't judge others, by the way. It seems apparent that's what you're doing presently, whether you intend to or not. You're more or less imposing your personal ideals on others, & those who choose a different path are unversally ''weak.'' This seems highly hypocritical to your previously emphasized ideals.

I'm merely pointing out an inconsistency in reasoning I've noticed, so please don't consider this as an attack on you as a person- I've no energy for that- I actually enjoy your insights in a lot of other threads. Just trying to understand and follow your lines of thinking.
 

Beorn

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Having doctor-assisted suicide available at least removes some of the trauma and stigma associated with suicides of this nature. Ultimately, it's not up to any of us to decide how a sick, dying person ought to experience their last moments alive, regardless of personally held subjective belief systems & ideals.

It's not the job of doctors to worry about social stigma. It is the duty of doctors to heal and treat people who are unwell. Enabling doctors to kill people is in fundamental opposition to the very nature of their work.

It is up to us to provide care and encouragement to those who suffer. It is up to us that are healthier to be strong for those who are weak. To actively seek death is selfish and inconsiderate of those who love you.
 

Lexicon

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Why is that not the case for people who are not sick and in pain?

I think more often than not, there's a chance for recovery available for psychiatric conditions. Neuroplasticity is wonderful like that.
Ultimately, people will do what they will. I can't judge if they're doing the right thing or not, but I feel it's a tragic waste, when someone takes their own life due to a psychological problem that has some potential to be corrected with support and care from their community and healthcare professionals. When they're dead, that potential is gone. With terminally ill, I figure that sort of potential, near the end, is not there. So that's my reasoning for my personal pov on the topic.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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I find it quite ironic how you attempted to argue in past threads how you don't judge others, by the way. It seems apparent that's what you're doing presently, whether you intend to or not. You're more or less imposing your personal ideals on others, & those who choose a different path are unversally ''weak.'' This seems highly hypocritical to your previously emphasized ideals.

I'm merely pointing out an inconsistency in reasoning I've noticed, so please don't consider this as an attack on you as a person- I've no energy for that- I actually enjoy your insights in a lot of other threads. Just trying to understand and follow your lines of thinking.


I find it ironic that you, and, it seems, everyone else, cannot see the implicit penultimate judgment that is deciding how the end of one's life should look, and that to put that entity out of its misery is to the ultimate good.


If anything, I am safeguarding one's right to die in the way one is meant to die. When that person can no longer speak for himself. If that person wants meds, so be it. If that person wants to pull their own trigger, or have it pulled, so be it. But it is not the ideal way to exit this world. I doubt you'd see a dog that was dying, kill itself. If you have ever seen an animal put itself out of its misery, then I'd really be interested in knowing about it.
 

Lexicon

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It's not the job of doctors to worry about social stigma. It is the duty of doctors to heal and treat people who are unwell. Enabling doctors to kill people is in fundamental opposition to the very nature of their work.

It is up to us to provide care and encouragement to those who suffer. It is up to us that are healthier to be strong for those who are weak. To actively seek death is selfish and inconsiderate of those who love you.

If everyone agreed with your opinions, assisted suicide wouldn't be legal in some states, already.
 

BlackCat

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For stupid, emo reasons that are largely temporary I think it's not justified. But if someone is in pain and it will never end, then it could be justified if it's making the person unable to live their lives the way that they want to.
 

Lexicon

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I find it ironic that you, and, it seems, everyone else, cannot see the implicit penultimate judgment that is deciding how the end of one's life should look, and that to put that entity out of its misery is to the ultimate good.


If anything, I am safeguarding one's right to die in the way one is meant to die. When that person can no longer speak for himself. If that person wants meds, so be it. If that person wants to pull their own trigger, or have it pulled, so be it. But it is not the ideal way to exit this world. I doubt you'd see a dog that was dying, kill itself. If you have ever seen an animal put itself out of its misery, then I'd really be interested in knowing about it.


Where did you find this definition of being ''meant'' to do or be anything in this life, or death? To me, these are all subjective. I'm saying live and let live, or, live and let die, in some scenarios. It'd be arrogant for me to assume I know what people should or should not ultimately do in these situations. I'm no universal authority on life or death, no matter how strongly I may feel about my own beliefs.

And what would you call refusal of food and water? Animals die of self-imposed dehydration and starvation when they're ill enough, all the time.
 

Beorn

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If everyone agreed with your opinions, assisted suicide wouldn't be legal in some states, already.

It's very sad.

If it weren't for opinions of terminally ill and severely disabled members of parliament assisted suicide would be legal in the UK. It was one of my highest honors to see them speak against assisted suicide laws in house of lords.
 
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