God helmet experiment

[Lark]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet

I read about this in a couple of different books seeking to prove or disprove the existence of God, anyway, I'm not so interested in that question as the question of whether or not people should have access to something like this? What if they were mass produced and sold to whoever wanted one?

 

[WALMART]

I mean, it doesn't really DO anything though, does it?

I'd feel comfortable selling one to Hitler.


As for the actual subject of the God Helmet itself, I'd prefer to liken it to the spooky phenomenon effect. Something like just by expecting to experience spooky phenomenon in a controlled environment you're more likely to report strange occurrences?

The brain is a powerful thing, but I don't know enough about this apparatus to make substantive claims.

 

[Fluffywolf]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet

I read about this in a couple of different books seeking to prove or disprove the existence of God, anyway, I'm not so interested in that question as the question of whether or not people should have access to something like this? What if they were mass produced and sold to whoever wanted one?

I don't see the harm. Some theists might claim it to be a methodology to be more closer to the paranormal/God. Whilest non-theist will add it to their decorum of arguements why they are not theists, where most theists will claim it to be simply inconclusive. Ultimately belief, either way, can never be proven or disproven. Scientifically, all it proves is that it is a possibility that feelings and visions of God may be because of interference in the frontal lobes, but it can never prove that all such cases, past present and future, are in fact because of this phenomenon.

 

[Lark]

Lately in my thinking I've been less and less concerned as to whether or not God is an external reality or internal projection of the human mind, realistically I dont see why it can not be both, especially since I think human relationships are objectively both most of the time.

The idea that God is a meme or product of the human mind or imagination, while I dont believe it is true, is not something which I think should necessarily cancel out belief per se and I've always thought that, for instance Feuerbach and Dawkins are poles apart, one seeing some value in religion, the other being wholling negative about it.

Although the idea that there is a means to access what mystics or others have accessed interests me. I could see this being something which would appeal to theists, even if it has a neurologial basis.

 

[Southern Kross]

I heard about this in a documentary about Temporal Lobe Epilepsy and experiences of the paranormal and religion. It was fascinating and basically suggested that the neurology of each person's temporal lobes exist on a scale which inherently affects our ability to believe: those with TLE and the very religious are at the most extreme end, and hard-core atheists and sceptics exist at the other. They even got Richard Dawkins to test out the helmet. They interviewed atheists and the religious, and both were satisfied with what the studies have found because it was easily explained by their own beliefs.

Edit: actually I found the documentary's name, if you're interested. It's called God on the Brain. It's worth watching if you can find it. Here's a link to the BBC article on it: God on the Brain - programme summary

 

[Nicodemus]

What if they were mass produced and sold to whoever wanted one?

I support this idea. Wearing them in public would be a wonderful way for nutjobs to make themselves known, certainly far more effective than the idiot badge.

 

[Little_Sticks]

I support this idea. Wearing them in public would be a wonderful way for nutjobs to make themselves known, certainly far more effective than the idiot badge.

It's kind of pointless when everyone has to wear it. Perhaps the nutjobs that don't believe they are nutjobs could tell all the other nutjobs to wear it? Oh wait, that's always implied, isn't it. I support this then!

 

[Nicodemus]

It's kind of pointless when everyone has to wear it.

Then it is not pointless.

 

[Reverie]

Lately in my thinking I've been less and less concerned as to whether or not God is an external reality or internal projection of the human mind, realistically I dont see why it can not be both, especially since I think human relationships are objectively both most of the time.

The idea that God is a meme or product of the human mind or imagination, while I dont believe it is true, is not something which I think should necessarily cancel out belief per se and I've always thought that, for instance Feuerbach and Dawkins are poles apart, one seeing some value in religion, the other being wholling negative about it.

Although the idea that there is a means to access what mystics or others have accessed interests me. I could see this being something which would appeal to theists, even if it has a neurologial basis.

What type of phenomena people experience? Just feelings of being watched and feeling disorientated, abnormal bodily sensations or something more akin to what could be considered a genuine mystical state?
I know in the paranormal circles it's pretty widely thought that there are people who are especially sensitive to electromagnetic fields like you'd have if you had faulty wiring or HEPA filters installed and that those fields can produce feelings that can be interpreted as a spirit....feelings of being watched, followed, nausea, feelings of oppression... but also that paradoxically it's thought that high fields can also intensify spirit activity. That's the general view in those circles.
Now if you were to take the spiritualist tradition's POV seriously and consider hypothetically that there was a spirit realm. Some prominent occultists like Dion Fortune speak of there being a veil figuratively speaking between these worlds and if you peak on the other side whatever is on that side peaks back at you...so that's surely something to consider too beforehand, just in case. ...Of course you can choose to take that as just superstition and see it as brain stimulation.

I heard about this in a documentary about Temporal Lobe Epilepsy and experiences of the paranormal and religion. It was fascinating and basically suggested that the neurology of each person's temporal lobes exist on a scale which inherently affects our ability to believe: those with TLE and the very religious are at the most extreme end, and hard-core atheists and sceptics exist at the other. They even got Richard Dawkins to test out the helmet. They interviewed atheists and the religious, and both were satisfied with what the studies have found because it was easily explained by their own beliefs.

Edit: actually I found the documentary's name, if you're interested. It's called God on the Brain. It's worth watching if you can find it. Here's a link to the BBC article on it: God on the Brain - programme summary

That is a really good documentary. I've seen it too and it was informative, interesting, tasteful and respectful.

 

[Lark]

I support this idea. Wearing them in public would be a wonderful way for nutjobs to make themselves known, certainly far more effective than the idiot badge.

Just because your insulting comments get a pass doesnt mean that that is all they amount to insults. Why dont you try to contribute something instead? Just because they have not been interesting enough for anyone to comment or take an interest in the past doesnt mean that this going to happen every time you post. You should try it. At the moment people just look at your posts and avatar and think that's that insulting guy, you could be more than that I'm sure. Think about it.

 

[Lark]

What type of phenomena people experience? Just feelings of being watched and feeling disorientated, abnormal bodily sensations or something more akin to what could be considered a genuine mystical state?
I know in the paranormal circles it's pretty widely thought that there are people who are especially sensitive to electromagnetic fields like you'd have if you had faulty wiring or HEPA filters installed and that those fields can produce feelings that can be interpreted as a spirit....feelings of being watched, followed, nausea, feelings of oppression... but also that paradoxically it's thought that high fields can also intensify spirit activity. That's the general view in those circles.
Now if you were to take the spiritualist tradition's POV seriously and consider hypothetically that there was a spirit realm. Some prominent occultists like Dion Fortune speak of there being a veil figuratively speaking between these worlds and if you peak on the other side whatever is on that side peaks back at you...so that's surely something to consider too beforehand, just in case. ...Of course you can choose to take that as just superstition and see it as brain stimulation.



That is a really good documentary. I've seen it too and it was informative, interesting, tasteful and respectful.

Well having it freely available would in part be just an excuse to permit me to get using it, the things you mention about feeling as though you are being looked at etc. dont really strike me as being experiences of God, they sound more like the different sorts of disorientation you could experience on rollercoasters or something like that.

Although I dont see the whole thing as a disproof of God or spirituality or spiritualism.

 

[Nicodemus]

Just because your insulting comments get a pass doesnt mean that that is all they amount to insults. Why dont you try to contribute something instead? Just because they have not been interesting enough for anyone to comment or take an interest in the past doesnt mean that this going to happen every time you post. You should try it. At the moment people just look at your posts and avatar and think that's that insulting guy, you could be more than that I'm sure. Think about it.

You can stop showing it, Lark, everybody has already seen your badge.

 

[Lark]

You can stop showing it, Lark, everybody has already seen your badge.

I know, I get regular positive feedback in the form of reps, friend requests, PMs, the works. And as you know contact off the site. What do you get? I dont see you posting much besides insults or rude comments to people, sometimes its a lame attempt at humour but most of the time it just makes you appear like you're suffering from some serious case of depression.

 

[Nicodemus]

I know, I get regular positive feedback in the form of reps, friend requests, PMs, the works. And as you know contact off the site. What do you get? I dont see you posting much besides insults or rude comments to people, sometimes its a lame attempt at humour but most of the time it just makes you appear like you're suffering from some serious case of depression.

You always bring up (imaginary) popularity when you talk to people you do not like. Why is that? You can start a popularity contest thread if it means that much to you, though.

 

[Lark]

You always bring up (imaginary) popularity when you talk to people you do not like. Why is that? You can start a popularity contest thread if it means that much to you, though.

Well imaginary popularity is in play alright, I'm sure you imagine that being completely insulting and rude towards me makes you very popular with an imaginary gallery, maybe it does, although I'd count that gallery as small in number. In any case you're wrong in believing it matters to me. I'd ask you again about why you have to act this way to get people responding to you on the forum but its something you've avoided repeatedly so I'll save myself some time.

So you can go now and contemplate about how you failed again to provoke me into saying something which'll result in an infraction or perma ban. This isnt your own personal game of thrones, its just a forum in which, for the most part, people can have a civil exchange and engage with topical discussions to pass the time and have a laugh.

 

[Reverie]

Well having it freely available would in part be just an excuse to permit me to get using it, the things you mention about feeling as though you are being looked at etc. dont really strike me as being experiences of God, they sound more like the different sorts of disorientation you could experience on rollercoasters or something like that.

Although I dont see the whole thing as a disproof of God or spirituality or spiritualism.

No me neither. If there's a mechanism for something is one thing, meaning is another. Not the same thing obviously. The helmet sounds interesting. In the documentary the results weren't that unusual or in any way what I'd term as experiencing God. That's why I was curious as to what other types of experiences they might have had reported with it. Well it's interesting in any case.

 

[Lark]

No me neither. If there's a mechanism for something is one thing, meaning is another. Not the same thing obviously. The helmet sounds interesting. In the documentary the results weren't that unusual or in any way what I'd term as experiencing God. That's why I was curious as to what other types of experiences they might have had reported with it. Well it's interesting in any case.

In the wiki its a big daft motor cycle helmet and I wonder what that's about because in the documentary footage and a book I read about this it was instead like a swimming cap or neurological scan head piece, I've always wondered about means to altered states of consciousness as it pertains to spirituality, like when I've read about someone who has a vision at the end of a physical trial or meditation of some sort, especially since I know that I'm unlikely to be able to reproduce the same results myself. I'm less enamoured with the idea of toxicological short cuts to expanded consciousness or altered states, perhaps because I associate them with damage or risk which I dont associate something like the God helmet idea with.

 

[Nicodemus]

So you can go now and contemplate about how you failed again to provoke me into saying something which'll result in an infraction or perma ban.

I made fun of your god helmet idea because it is stupid, as I usually make fun of your ideas because they are stupid. If, in return, you say something amusing, I take that, too; but generally I just find your ideas worth ridiculing.

Please do not try to read my posts as if they were written by you in situations in which you would write them. It only leads to false interpretations.

 

[Lark]

I made fun of your god helmet idea because it is stupid, as I usually make fun of your ideas because they are stupid. If, in return, you say something amusing, I take that, too; but generally I just find your ideas worth ridiculing.

Please do not try to read my posts as if they were written by you in situations in which you would write them. It only leads to false interpretations.

OK well, have fun then, for my part I dont see anything redeeming about your posts what so ever, I just see someones issues spilling out all over the forum and the place is the poorer for it. Take care now.

 

[Nicodemus]

OK well, have fun then, for my part I dont see anything redeeming about your posts what so ever, I just see someones issues spilling out all over the forum and the place is the poorer for it. Take care now.

An honest question: Are you sure it is Te for you, not Fe?