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  1. #31
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    Aug 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    How does this make him not an atheist?

    He believes there is not a god. Therefore he's an atheist.

    You don't have to be 100% sure that something is true to believe it.
    Precisely. @SmileyMan also has it right. Whether you're agnostic or not is an epistemic claim - it's about belief and degrees of certainty. Whether you're atheist or not is a metaphysical claim - it's about whether or not something exists in the world. They are fundamentally different things. To be honest, I think people who claim to be agnostic are really just soft atheists who don't want to offend anyone.
    Chimera of Filth

    A gruesome beast with dripping flesh
    Clings to me as a sick fixture
    My throbbing heart it gnawed apart
    It stalks and hunts me through mirrors

  2. #32


    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    And the god of Christianity sounds like an unhealthy 2 lol.
    Does he now?

  3. #33
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Aug 2009


    I'm an atheist and an agnostic, is there some kind of contradiction there that I'm unaware of?

    and, who cares, dawkins is an idiot.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2010


    Everyone is either atheist or theist.
    That is,
    Everyone is either x or not x where x is defined as theism or the "belief in the existence of a god or gods".

    Atheism doesn't have a definition that can be separated from theism. It's called a/theism for a reason.

    The real question is what happens when x is defined as not x. lololol

    Agnosticism doesn't answer the answers it's own question.

  5. #35
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    Apr 2007


    Dawkins has always maintained, so far as I am aware, that he considers the existence of God extremely improbable. Many of his arguments in The God Delusion don't end with, '... therefore, God doesn't exist', but rather '... therefore, it is highly probable that God doesn't exist'. Philosophically, Dawkins is basically an empiricist with a Bayesian twist; he assiduously avoids claiming absolute certainty (i.e. believing that some claim has a 100 percent probability of being true) except, perhaps, in the case of basic logic truths.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  6. #36
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Apr 2011
    6w7 sx/sp


    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Does he now?
    Indeed. He desires to help everyone... but he must be loved in return (by the time people die). He feels that he is owed something for creating us, a sense of entitlement, if you will.
    Enneagram: 6w7, phobic
    Tritype: 6-9-2
    Instinctual Variant: Sx/Sp
    Temperament: Pure Supine
    D&D Alignment: Neutral Good
    Political Stance: Solid Liberal
    Religious Views: Atheist

    Fi > Ne > Ti > Fe > Se > Si > Te > Ni

    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
    "I am justice!" ~ Light Yagami, Death Note
    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

    Tatiana ♥

  7. #37
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Feb 2010


    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    and, who cares, dawkins is an idiot.
    I get the "he's smug" or "he's a dick," (even from fellow atheists/agnostics) but idiot? The dude is an fairly prodigious evolutionary biologist, even without all the atheism stuff, and held a pretty major position at Oxford (from which he also graduated), one of the best universities in the world.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  8. #38
    EvanTheClown (ETC) Clownmaster's Avatar
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    Sep 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    Gnostic theist
    Agnostic theist
    Agnostic atheist (Dawkins, and most other "reasonable" atheists - despite of Dawkins having lapses, probably due to his age)
    Gnostic atheist (fanatic)
    Gnostic atheism isn't fanaticism, and Dawkins is most definitely a gnostic atheist.


    A gnostic atheist, albeit seemingly contradictory to the term gnostic, isn't for or against the proposition of whether or not a god or gods exist. Rather, it is more often accepting atheism by congruence, and knowing that the existence of many proposed god(s) of religions are false by way of contradictions and apparent falsehoods within religious texts and beliefs.

    the gnostic portion of "gnostic atheist" doesn't mean "i know there are no gods"
    it can mean "i know that your god doesn't exist."
    an example of a religious view that gnostic atheism doesn't take a stance against would be deism.

    an agnostic atheist will claim that they aren't sure if any gods exist, but they don't believe in them.

    a gnostic atheist will claim the same, except that if any do exist, they definitely aren't the judeo-christian god, allah, any of the hindi gods, etc.

    The name of the article was misleadingly "Richard Dawkins says he’s not entirely sure God doesn’t exist"

    but the quote from him that they used was “I think the probability of a supernatural creator existing (is) very, very low"

    This in no way refutes his gnostic atheism.

    Because you can't spell "Slaughter" without "Laughter"

  9. #39
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Mar 2009


    I'm an agnostic.

    There's a chance that a god could exist.

    I'm 100% of the belief that the Judeo-Christian god does not exist.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  10. #40


    Quote Originally Posted by Clownmaster View Post
    Let me simplify your post:

    "Everybody is a gnostic atheist in relation to some deity - ie. 100% sure in its non-existence."

    Of course the system of categorization I posted has to be applied on a deity-by-deity basis. My thoughts on Dawkins were only in relation to his belief in the Abrahamic God/Allah. Since he himself has said that he is less than 100% certain in its non-existence, he is by both your definition ("an agnostic atheist will claim that they aren't sure if any gods exist, but they don't believe in them." - being "sure" implying 100% certainty) and my own an agnostic atheist.

    I believe what rubbed you the wrong way about my post was me calling gnostic atheists "fanatics." I did this as I believe that someone who thinks he has knowledge of a deity's non-existence, no matter how contradictory and stupid the texts describing this deity are, are relying on "faith" (or belief without any substantial evidence) as much as someone who knows that is does it exist; the latter we usually do call fanatics. While perhaps fanatic technically isn't the proper word to describe these atheists, they usually do share some traits with religious fanatics - especially when dealing with people whom do not share their beliefs.

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