Original sin?

[Beorn]

OMG, dude. He didn't change it.
Do you always see what you want to see rather than what's really there?
Look who I'm asking...

LOL

You're really not paying attention at all in this thread are you?
see: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53594&p=1781085&viewfull=1#post1781085

Compared to: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53594&p=1781089&viewfull=1#post1781089

You don't seem interested in any real discussion so why don't you just stop?

 

[EcK]

I don't know why you changed it nor do I care. I think it's funny that you're nitpicking at some offhand remark and ignoring my broader argument.

There is no broader argument, you hardly make any sense. Would you discuss psychology with a child who doesn't even have a theory of mind yet ? You are free to take it as you will and think I'm an idiot but this is how you appear to me.

 

[Beorn]

There is no broader argument, you hardly make any sense. Would you discuss psychology with a child who doesn't even have a theory of mind yet ? You are free to take it as you will and think I'm an idiot but this is how you appear to me.

Tell me why goodness matters from a materialistic atheistic perspective.

 

[entropie]

There is no broader argument, you hardly make any sense. Would you discuss psychology with a child who doesn't even have a theory of mind yet ? You are free to take it as you will and think I'm an idiot but this is how you appear to me.

He discussed with me, but nobody told him. I say thats 34 ave maria up my ass

 

[Salomé]

You don't seem interested in any real discussion so why don't you just stop?

I think it's funny that you call other people nitpickers. And I like to be entertained!

You haven't made a single point worthy of being challenged. All you are doing is making yourself more and more ridiculous. Which is your prerogative, naturally.
As it is mine to laugh at your folly.

 

[EcK]

Tell me why goodness matters from a materialistic atheistic perspective.

Go learn about biological anthropology and statistics then come back to me. It is not my job to educate the intellectually lazy.

 

[Beorn]

Go learn about biological anthropology and statistics then come back to me. It is not my job to educate the intellectually lazy.

Please don't waste my time by coming into these threads and just hurtling around insults without being willing to back them up and instead just being dismissive.

 

[Beorn]

I think it's funny that you call other people nitpickers. And I like to be entertained!

You haven't made a single point worthy of being challenged. All you are doing is making yourself more and more ridiculous. Which is your prerogative, naturally.
As it is mine to laugh at your folly.

Will you tell me why goodness matters from a materialist atheistic world view?

Will anyone?
Can anyone?

 

[Salomé]

Please don't waste my time by coming into these threads and just hurtling around insults without being willing to back them up and instead just being dismissive.

Because you're the only person who's allowed to be dismissive?

LOL

You're really not paying attention at all in this thread are you?
see: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53594&p=1781085&viewfull=1#post1781085

Compared to: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53594&p=1781089&viewfull=1#post1781089

You don't seem interested in any real discussion so why don't you just stop?

You're a ridiculous hypocrite.
And you're wasting your own time.

 

[Salomé]

Will you tell me why goodness matters from a materialist atheistic world view?

Will anyone?
Can anyone?

Short answer: it doesn't.
Longer answer: go read something like The Origins of Virtue or The Moral Animal.

You're welcome.

 

[Beorn]

Because you're the only person who's allowed to be dismissive?


You're a ridiculous hypocrite.
And you're wasting your own time.

Sure, I'm a hypocrite all the time. But, at least my worldview provides a reasonable basis for saying that being a hypocrite is BAD.

 

[Salomé]

Congratulations. I can see that's really working out well for you.

 

[entropie]

I dont even know what hypocrite means

 

[Beorn]

Congratulations. I can see that's really working out well for you.

Yes, well believing in Original sin makes it easier to confront realities of my own badness.

Annnnnnd, now that I've come full circle back to original sin I think I'll call it a night.

 

[Beorn]

Ok, one last thing. I think it's ironic that through this whole exchange I've used the word term "logically inconsistent" and yet it's the atheist that's lobbing the morally charged word, "hypocrite".

 

[entropie]

Ok, one last thing. I think it's ironic that through this whole exchange I've used the word term "logically inconsistent" and yet it's the atheist that's lobbing the morally charged word, "hypocrite".

Well in the german language your usage of the word "you", over the course of discussion, would be a rhetorical attack

 

[Beorn]

Well in the german language your usage of the word "you", over the course of discussion, would be a rhetorical attack

That's interesting. I didn't know that.

My point is that over and over again atheists want to use Christian morality to condemn christianity withou having a meaningful basis in morality themselves. In a sense they step out of atheist worldview and into the Christian worldview, where goodness matters. They attack the Christian worldview saying it's bad and then step back into the atheist worldview where goodness and badness don't matter. They never actually defend atheism and a world where goodness doesn't matter.

 

[iwakar]

They never actually defend atheism and a world where goodness doesn't matter.

Weird. I never saw anyone lobbying for 'a world where goodness doesn't matter.'

And if you insist on telling people that because they do not share your version of god that they cannot know goodness, expect to be argued with.

 

[entropie]

"My point is that over and over again atheists want to use Christian morality to condemn christianity withou having a meaningful basis in morality themselves."

Atheists can have christian morality. Point. Atheists wont ever condemn you, they just dont believe in a God.

"In a sense they step out of atheist worldview and into the Christian worldview, where goodness matters."

I can understand that this feels intruding but what would be a wisdom if it was only shared by people who have only one arm ? I mean I respect religion and I respect religious people, I really even do share their morality. I just dont belief in a God. What I am asking for to do so is tolerance, if you give me that, you'll get it back thats a promise.

"They attack the Christian worldview saying it's bad and then step back into the atheist worldview where goodness and badness don't matter."

goodness and badness matter anywhere. Its just that atheists like to add the shade of grey, cause the world just aint purely good or bad. Even the bible doesnt have only good oir bad characters.

"They never actually defend atheism and a world where goodness doesn't matter. "

Thats a point in which I am fully having your wing.

 

[skylights]

[MENTION=5789]Beefeater[/MENTION], perhaps you did not see because my post was at the end of a page, but I did in fact respond to your debate point.

Will you tell me why goodness matters from a materialist atheistic world view?

Will anyone?
Can anyone?

If there is no God then we are all just the consequence of chemical reactions. There is no inherent difference between birth and murder.

Besides in the stirrings we feel in response to the advent of new life and the loss of someone close and meaningful to us; besides in the difference between pleasure and pain; besides in the difference between creating a world that is safe and truthful and kind and one that is tormented and deceitful and unfair; besides in making life something we want to live versus something we want to run from.

The existence of God makes little difference in the basic tenet that we should live a moral life.

My point is that over and over again atheists want to use Christian morality to condemn christianity withou having a meaningful basis in morality themselves. In a sense they step out of atheist worldview and into the Christian worldview, where goodness matters. They attack the Christian worldview saying it's bad and then step back into the atheist worldview where goodness and badness don't matter. They never actually defend atheism and a world where goodness doesn't matter.

I am not an atheist, but I do not believe that the bolded is a viewpoint that many hold. I am close to several agnostic atheists who are very concerned with morality and ethics despite no preexisting religious moral framework. The fact is that beyond specifics, there is a large pool of actions and viewpoints that almost every person can agree on being "good". These are the concepts that reoccur throughout cultures: the inherent goodness of new life, of strong familial, romantic, and platonic relationships, awareness of others, balance, freedom of expression and creativity, self-representation, self-control, loyalty and fidelity, joy and enthusiasm. These things are Good even from an evolutionary standpoint because they encourage and protect human life. They make a better world for each of us, which in turn makes a better world for all of us (and vice versa).

Essentially - to be a materialist atheist is not to be an existentialist nihilist.