Questions on Lying to Children About Fiction & Fantasy: Your Experiences and Thoughts

[iwakar]

Questions on Lying to Children About Fiction & Fantasy: Your Experiences and Thoughts

As a kid, I was fed the tales of Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, and --to a lesser extent-- ghosts, and leprechauns (and their pot of gold at the end of the rainbow). I know that there are other stories perpetuated that I may not have personal experience with, so I'll keep the language of the questions open.

1a) Were you convinced by your elders that fictitious characters and/or events were real, as a child?
1b) What were they?
1c) From what age till when?
1d) How did you find out the truth?

2a) Do you intend to perpetuate the stories? (Or have you already?)
2b) Why or why not?

3a) Can this caliber of "fantasy fun" be taken too far with children?
3b) If so, how?

Please contribute any additional thoughts on the topic you'd like.

I know this topic has come up in the past within related discussion, but I'd like a current roll-call of opinion on this topic explicitly.

 

[Coriolis]

1a) Were you convinced by your elders that fictitious characters and/or events were real, as a child?
1b) What were they?
1c) From what age till when?
1d) How did you find out the truth?

2a) Do you intend to perpetuate the stories? (Or have you already?)
2b) Why or why not?

3a) Can this caliber of "fantasy fun" be taken too far with children?
3b) If so, how?

We had just Santa, Easter bunny, and Tooth fairy when I was a child. I forget when and how I learned the truth about them. I would perpetuate at least the first two, but perhaps in different ways. I suppose this goes too far if it becomes a drain on resources (time, money), or gets taken too seriously. I think kids believe alot of things that adults recognize are not "real", or at least kids and adults have different perspectives. As an adult, Santa is still real to me, but as an idea, much like the characters in Aesop's fables. We don't throw all those out just because there wasn't an actual tortoise who raced against the hare. Perhaps kids can see characters like Santa on a continuum, on which simplistic childhood views of concrete reality ease into more mature views of symbolic reality.

 

[figsfiggyfigs]

My parents tried feeding me these lies. I knew better than to believe them. They've always been too devious to share wonderful information so easily. Movies did a better job feeding me fabrications of a reality that housed all these false creatures than my parents ever did. There comes an age of intelligence where you stop believing in heresy and begin demanding visual and real-time proof. Religion could be an aspect to consider here.
I do think that these stories have their reason for existence, more specifically to the benefits of the parent having more leverage. They probably also play a role in the development of a child's imagination, and the inquisitive nature of their existence( term applied generally)

It is possible that parents relish in the stories as well because of nostalgic effect. It alsoprovides a sense of escape from the "harsh" day-to-day reality, and by telling their kids, they're re-creating that world.

 

[Betty Blue]

I think all children deserve a little fantasy, they will grow up and learn the harsh ways of the world soon enough.
That being said there are some things that border on the ridiculous (although i do appreciate some of the ridiculous) which really are neither here nor there.
Imo, children are pretty good at making up their own fantasy worlds, and well go with that. I don't see it as harmful.
Imaginary friends, fantasy worlds, magic tree's etc...all good healthy imaginative exploratory fun.
Also i think it is important to talk to children about real and oftentimes taboo topics such as sex, discrimination, war, birth, death.
When you have these things healthily discussed you are less likely to have grown ups who discriminate and come to strange conclusions/influences by such as the media whore machine.
Thats my tuppence

 

[Rasofy]

1a) Were you convinced by your elders that fictitious characters and/or events were real, as a child?

Yes.

1b) What were they?

Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy, Sack man*

The Hombre del Saco, or Sack Man, seems to be one of the earliest versions of the "bogeyman" legend. He manifests in tales as an old man with a large sack slung over his shoulder, stretched taut from the bundles of kidnapped children struggling within. He prowls the backalleys and other dark corners of his haunts, always alert for more unwary youngsters. Once the Sack Man put them into his sack, they were never seen again.

1c) From what age till when?

Not sure. Around 7 I think.

1d) How did you find out the truth?

1- Santa- One day I asked for an arcade. Dad informed me santa was facing a crisis and made me chose another present. :yim_rolling_on_the_ After some time I figured it out.
Can't remember the others...there wasn't a event to mark the transition.

2a) Do you intend to perpetuate the stories? (Or have you already?)

No way.

2b) Why or why not?

First because I can't lie long term. I'm like Sheldon Cooper when trying to keep a secret.
Second because I don't expect a person to trust me when I'm feeding him/her with lies.
Third because I'd want my children to get smart.

3a) Can this caliber of "fantasy fun" be taken too far with children?

Yes.

3b) If so, how?

I can see it generating phobias. A kid has to understand bad behavior should and will be punished reasonably. Intrinsically evil monsters aren't the solution.

 

[Totenkindly]

1a) Were you convinced by your elders that fictitious characters and/or events were real, as a child?
Yes.

1b) What were they?
Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy

1c) From what age till when?
Probably from birth until I was maybe 8 or 9, max.

1d) How did you find out the truth?
School friends put the idea in my head, finally I asked my parents.

2a) Do you intend to perpetuate the stories? (Or have you already?)
I already did. My kids are teenagers now.

2b) Why or why not?
Because it was fun for everyone, them included.

Some of our favorite family memories were when our kids had gotten older and we would still write the Santa letter with cookies, or we'd try to slip money under the pillow from the Tooth Fairy but our kids suspected / were quite sure it was us, but we were still pretending it was true, and they wanted to catch us so bad, so we'd have to outsmart them. My daughter was especially determined and very crafty (to the point of rigging threads in the doorways, etc.) but somehow we always managed to get around her traps. It was so hilarious, because she KNEW it was us; and we all knew that she knew; and she knew that we knew she knew; but we kept playing the game, and she just couldn't ever prove it.

I think the thing is we all eventually knew the truth, and the purposeful earnestness of our tone (and the elaborate explanations we'd give them for the things they challenged us on) let them know even more for it was fake, so they found it fun instead.

3a) Can this caliber of "fantasy fun" be taken too far with children?
I guess so. Anything can be taken "too far" if it's clear the child is not getting something positive out of it, but the parents continue.

3b) If so, how?
It seems to me that it's something where, if the parent/child relationship is good, then it's a fun family game to play; if the relationship is already bad or full of deceit, or if the child is already avoiding reality because of psychological pressures in the home and school, then playing such games could confuse things further. I don't think the holiday traditions mess up kids; I think the kids have already been messed up by the parents for deeper-seated reasons and so then the games don't help.

Anyone, our kids enjoyed it.

 

[Qlip]

1a) Were you convinced by your elders that fictitious characters and/or events were real, as a child?
1b) What were they?
1c) From what age till when?
1d) How did you find out the truth?

Not unless you count a very weird interpretation of the Bible.

2a) Do you intend to perpetuate the stories? (Or have you already?)
2b) Why or why not?

My ex finds that whole Santa Clause/Easter Bunny/Tooth Fairy thing as an important part of childhood. I deferred to her early in the relationship, so that's what my kids experienced.

3a) Can this caliber of "fantasy fun" be taken too far with children?
3b) If so, how?

The whole thing always made me feel just a little bit uncomfortable, I just let her talk and I wear a stone smile mask when they bring the subject up, and then sometimes throw in a "You'll have to ask your mother" when I get a more pointed question.

I guess, this stuff has been done to generations of kids, with only enough damage to just barely wangst about if there isn't something more substantial in their lives to worry them. I suppose it can be taken too far, if you used one of those childhood fantasies as a real emotional support.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

1a) Were you convinced by your elders that fictitious characters and/or events were real, as a child? 1b) What were they? 1c) From what age till when?
1d) How did you find out the truth?
My mother spent her life in early childhood education and never perpetuated these stories to us. Other people did, but I don't remember ever believing in any of them. When I was six we lived in a log cabin with a narrow stove pipe, and I knew Santa couldn't fit down there, but also wondered why he wouldn't just use the door. It didn't make sense to me. I tried to solve problems as a child and make sense of the world because we faced various hardships and I wanted to know exactly what we were facing. However, I did play imaginary games and wanted to believe "The Borrowers" were real because my sister and I made special little houses for them outside and were pretty excited when we saw tiny turds left in their bathroom. I was almost a believer then until the more probable cause made itself apparent.

2a) Do you intend to perpetuate the stories? (Or have you already?)
2b) Why or why not?I teach music lesson to children and get asked about these from elementary school aged children who are beginning to question it. I usually just deflect and say I don't know and that they should ask their parents. I don't like to create inconsistent information at that young age. I don't like presenting those stories as real, but think children could have plenty of fun imagining them as a game - that way they can take ownership of the myth and add to it if they want. Instead of having a lie imposed on them, they can play with the ideas in fun and creativity. If I had children I'd let them create their own Santa stories if they wanted and they could make them funny.

3a) Can this caliber of "fantasy fun" be taken too far with children?
3b) If so, how?It is taken too far when it betrays trust or distorts their understanding of reality. Saying it's a traditional game for the imagination can preserve the whimsy and innocence of childhood and remind children that they can create fun, wonder, and beauty in their minds by choice. That is the skill that will help them face hardship or want. The world is hard enough, which means we shouldn't be tricked, but we should learn to foster imagination in order to solve the problems we can and choose our moments of escape from the problems we cannot.

 

[Anew Leaf]

1a: yes
1b: Santa Claus, Easter bunny, tooth fairy
1c: I don't really remember. Probably 7-8ish
1d: my parents flat out told me because they wanted a break from doing extra gifts

2a: if I ever have children, which is unlikely... Yes
2b: everyone needs some fantasy in their life. Santa would only be bringing one gift, however. I have a friend whos husband insisted that every gift be stated as being from Santa. I think that teaches some bad lessons.

3a: yes, if it's used to frighten children.

 

[Lark]

Some or all of the things you describe may not or are not fantasy.

Anyway, a scientific pioneer had something good to say about this:

I HAD rather believe all the fables in the Legend, 1 and the Talmud, 2 and the Alcoran, 3 than that this universal frame is without a mind. And therefore God never wrought miracle to convince 4 atheism, because his ordinary works convince it. It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism; but depth in philosophy bringeth men’s minds about to religion.

http://www.bartleby.com/3/1/16.html

 

[iwakar]

Sack man*

The Hombre del Saco, or Sack Man, seems to be one of the earliest versions of the "bogeyman" legend. He manifests in tales as an old man with a large sack slung over his shoulder, stretched taut from the bundles of kidnapped children struggling within. He prowls the backalleys and other dark corners of his haunts, always alert for more unwary youngsters. Once the Sack Man put them into his sack, they were never seen again.

Dark "fairy tales" haven't survived so well in English-speaking cultures. I certainly heard plenty of talk about the boogeyman (spelling seems to vary by region) from other children growing up, and have only recently heard of krampus. I think if instructive fairytale via happy figures is justifiable, then scary fairytales are fair game too. There are plenty of fairy tales like Hansel & Gretel that are pretty dark without being scarring. My mother's family told me the story of La Llorona when I was much older, as well as a comparable equivalent to Bigfoot, the Chupacabra.



I don't intend to lie to my kids about mythical figures, but I'll share lots and lots of imaginative stories. I like history. I like folklore. I love the art of storytelling! Imagination is good. But I'm not keen on perpetuating a lie. I don't believe it is very harmful, but I don't think it's very helpful either. If my significant other insists on doing it, I'll probably relent given the preponderance of it in our culture. It's nearly impossible to swim against the tide. I do slightly resent the fact that if I don't wish to engage in this form of culturally-accepted mass-propagandation, the responsibility will lie with my child to keep their opinions to themselves lest they be considered disruptive and come home with a note pinned to their shirt from teacher. It seems indicative of a greater attitude in western culture with valuing pleasant over truthful, especially with children. I think I read somewhere that this saccharine infantilization of young people is a holdover from the Victorian and Edwardian periods.

I also find that there is a cultural conflation of 1) promoting imagination & creativity, and 2) convincing children fictitious things are real. I believe they are totally separate endeavors by virtue of being able to do one, without the other.

I think the good press of the Magic Trinity (Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy) in English-speaking societies is strictly pervasiveness and popularity on account of the excuse for material acquisition and spending (many of us are capitalist countries after all). If telling children fictions to fuel their imagination and keep them in line was purely a philosophical consideration, we'd have a lot more 5 year olds running around with a fear of Zeus and a love of water sprites.

I've also noticed that some people, like Jennifer's family, view the discovery of the lies as a kind of rite of passage for children... a part of the growing up process, and they make a game out of it. This definitely happened with two of my brothers who thought it was great fun to try and "catch our parents in the act." At this point the deception seems to shift from imaginative to a game of wits... can or can't the children outsmart their parents?

 

[iwakar]

Some or all of the things you describe may not or are not fantasy.

Anyway, a scientific pioneer had something good to say about this:



http://www.bartleby.com/3/1/16.html

I beg to differ.

 

[Munchies]

lying to your kids in this sick society, nothing new. Lie to your kids about santa, about the easter bunny, about the tooth fairy. Get them all stupid on fictional bullshit so they actually might beleive the religion they learn in school. Jesus is as fake as santa. Everybody is retarded. i dont care what people lie or don't lie about

 

[Rasofy]

Dark "fairy tales" haven't survived so well in English-speaking cultures. I certainly heard plenty of talk about the boogeyman (spelling seems to vary by region) from other children growing up, and have only recently heard of krampus.

Interesting how similar they are. And I thought they were more common in US. Good for you all.

I think if instructive fairytale via happy figures is justifiable, then scary fairytales are fair game too. There are plenty of fairy tales like Hansel & Gretel that are pretty dark without being scarring. My mother's family told me the story of La Llorona when I was much older, as well as a comparable equivalent to Bigfoot, the Chupacabra.

Yeah, these are harmless imo. I guess it can be entertaining in this case...more or less like a Lord of the Rings story made real.

 

[wolfy]

1a) Were you convinced by your elders that fictitious characters and/or events were real, as a child?

Yeah.

1b) What were they?

Santa, Tooth Fairy and that a little man is in the radio.

1c) From what age till when?

9?

1d) How did you find out the truth?

Someone mentioned it and I asked. The radio guy I figured out myself through a method I like to call deduction.

2a) Do you intend to perpetuate the stories? (Or have you already?)

Yes, I have.

2b) Why or why not?

It is a fun thing. Like magic and mystery.

3a) Can this caliber of "fantasy fun" be taken too far with children?

I suppose that would depend on how far you pushed the concept of good.

3b) If so, how?

Defining good as cleaning the entire house daily seems too far.

 

[kyuuei]

1a) Were you convinced by your elders that fictitious characters and/or events were real, as a child?

Yes, I was. I believed them as a kid, and later on put pieces together that made me realize they were fake on my own. I wasn't particularly upset about knowing the truth. My sister was though.

1b) What were they?

Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Leprechauns, etc. I don't count 'ghosts', since I do find those to be real to this day.

1c) From what age till when?

Oh.. I'd say from a small child until about the age of 7ish..

1d) How did you find out the truth?

I found gifts under my parent's bed one year before christmas, marked from Santa himself later on. Easter bunny seemed a no-brainer after that, etc.

2a) Do you intend to perpetuate the stories? (Or have you already?)

Yes. But I take the approach that my friend has taken with her son... That these are spirits, not actual entities. That 'anyone' can be Santa.. it is a concept, that we've given a picture so that we can better identify with it. Which I think is what it is in the first place..

2b) Why or why not?

Is there no magic anymore in the world? I loved the possibility of there being magic.. It didn't bother me that the entities weren't ACTUAL real ones, but the idea of it being possible is still something child-like.. it's a moment you can only have in childhood.

3a) Can this caliber of "fantasy fun" be taken too far with children?

I think it is taken too far when people are terribly rude about it.. Kids bullying kids when they find out they still believe in santa on the playground.. And parents being so obscenely harsh about the holiday season and trying to force the issue after a child has discovered Santa to not a live being instead of explaining a more logical approach.

My youngest sister took it, for a while, as betrayal that Santa wasn't real. She REALLY wanted to believe in him, and ignored signs of otherwise long after they manifested. She thought were a bunch of liars, and threw a huge fit over it and tried to ruin christmas. She was manipulating my mother to feel guilty about lying.. I wasn't having it and told her she was selfish and blind if she couldn't see that Santa is a real thing.. he's just not a real guy. The spirit of giving to the good and being rewarded is a very real one, and she's just being selfish for trying to guilt trip my mother otherwise. I also find that to be an uglier side of it all.

My mother was trying to create magic.. and she was trying to take it negatively in what ever way she could.

 

[kyuuei]

lying to your kids in this sick society, nothing new. Lie to your kids about santa, about the easter bunny, about the tooth fairy. Get them all stupid on fictional bullshit so they actually might beleive the religion they learn in school. Jesus is as fake as santa. Everybody is retarded. i dont care what people lie or don't lie about

Have you ever lied before in your lifetime? Or do you find the idea of any lie, ever, to be a sickening, grotesque concept?

You say you don't care about what others lie about or not.. but clearly you mentioned the concept to be sickening.. so you do care at least a bit.

 

[NPcomplete]

1a) Were you convinced by your elders that fictitious characters and/or events were real, as a child?
1b) What were they?

Not really. I'm pretty sure my parents tried to tell me stories about Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Boogeyman etc but I probably didn't show any interest and they didn't push any further. My uncle, on the other hand, tried to convince me of other stories - mummies walking and chilling around the Valley of the Kings and the Mayan pyramids, vampires, ghosts, zombies, werewolves etc. I was more fascinated by the darker fantasy than the less dark ones.

1c) From what age till when?
1d) How did you find out the truth?

I was probably around 5 or 6 when my uncle told me those stories. I found out the truth when I repeated the stories to my parents and they laughed. When I learnt how to read and look for stuff in the encyclopedia, I started checking all the stories anyway.

2a) Do you intend to perpetuate the stories? (Or have you already?)
2b) Why or why not?


If I ever have kids, I'm not sure what I'll do. I'll probably tell them variations of Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy stories. I don't think I'll tell them the scary stories though. I wouldn't want to deal with crying and nightmares.

3a) Can this caliber of "fantasy fun" be taken too far with children?
3b) If so, how?

It could have negative consequences if taken too far. Fear can develop into something much bigger in later years.

 

[lunalum]

1a) Were you convinced by your elders that fictitious characters and/or events were real, as a child?

Sort of. I wasn't really that forcefully convinced though.

1b) What were they?

Mainly Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy

1c) From what age till when?

For Santa - early as I can remember until my parents started needing my help wrapping presents "from Santa" when I was 18-19.

Tooth fairy - the time during which I lost my teeth

1d) How did you find out the truth?

I had pretty strong evidence between age 8-11 finding thing like the "Santa" signature in my mom's handwriting, and people up wrapping presents at 3am on the 25th. But since 6 or 7 I was already kind of a Santa agnostic. I asked a ton of questions and didn't get satisfactory answers. I understood the sheer improbability of flying reindeer and one person on a sleigh delivering presents in the billions. (Yes, I thought of time warps by about age 11 but by then I had all those more obvious clues). I thought it was obvious that Santa existed as a concept of the "power of the Christmas spirit" and not necessarily as a literal being. An allegory, as I am able to label it now.

But I don't remember ever getting upset or cynical about it... I soon realized that Santa as a concept was a much cooler thing than what the literal Santa would have to be, and it gave me a little more respect for my parents because of seeing how they must do all sorts of secret wonderful stuff for us without even needing appreciation for it. I felt a little sad for them that they could never be properly appreciated for "Santa's" part of the work. Well, until I was about 17 and looked them in the eyes and said "Thank you, Santa" and they had me help in the 3am wrapping the next year

The tooth fairy... I was skeptical of her from the start because the whole thing seemed too creepy to be actually true


2a) Do you intend to perpetuate the stories? (Or have you already?)

Well, I sort of perpetuated the stories with my little sister. My parents wanted her to believe so whenever my sister asked about it I just nodded my head and talked about how Santa maybe uses rockets and time warps as his "magic"

If I were to ever have kids, I don't intend on feeding them the stories as truth, or telling them they are not true, but simply as awesome stories that stretch their sense of fantasy, and when it does come up when they enter school I would want them to make up their own mind about it.

2b) Why or why not?

See 3b.

3a) Can this caliber of "fantasy fun" be taken too far with children?

Yes

3b) If so, how?

A lot of children end up taking these sorts of things very seriously and very literally, and can end up becoming either more blindly unquestioning because of things being explained away by magic, or go exploring into everything looking for proof of it until they eventually have to be told that it was "just made up." Either way it can be a lot of unnecessary grief and sorrow when the view they are so convinced of is shattered. It's taken too far when adults are excessively crafting a reality where things they themselves think are imaginary exist, and convincing kids to not question lots of different things because of magic, or raising things to such a level that when they stop believing they stop having faith in everything and everyone, creating a dangerous "society and even the people I'm closest to lie to me about everything so I'll just do whatever I want without caring of the consequences" mindset in some people.

But again, I actually like these fictional characters as concepts of the spirit of holidays and occasions and think it can be good for kids to have a good dash of stories and a tiny dash of spirit in their lives.

 

[Qlip]

Sounds like somebody didn't get what they wanted for Christmas.