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Good vs. decent?

Viridian

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I've been thinking about this lately...

When someone is described as a "decent" human being, it seems to imply that the person in question is barely passable when it comes to basic morality, or, at the very least, average in matters of virtue.

However, being described as "good" seems to place one a little above average in the "morality scale", from "being a nice guy" to "being a heroic figure".

So, in your opinion, where does the line between these two lie, approximately? What makes someone "good" or "decent"?

And where do you draw the line between "decent" and "crummy"? Is an isolated event enough for you to brand someone as "less than decent"?
 

Mole

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Common Decency

George Orwell gave us the phrase 'common decency' to describe liberal democracy.

And by contrast we can see how indecent are the dictatorships of North Korea, Burma, China and Syria and the Islamic States under Sharia.

Yes, 'common decency' is shared by the common people of a liberal democracy.

'Common decency' is a shared quality built up over many centuries, and is part of the warp and weft of the culture of liberal democracy.

'Common decency' is taken for granted in liberal democracies.
 

Coriolis

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So, in your opinion, where does the line between these two lie, approximately? What makes someone "good" or "decent"?
To me, these are a matter of degree, with "decent" describing someone who tries to do no harm, and "good" describing someone who goes beyond that to try to do good.

In a related question, I have wondered about the difference between being good and being nice, or even kind. Must does the first assume the second?
 

Viridian

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To me, these are a matter of degree, with "decent" describing someone who tries to do no harm, and "good" describing someone who goes beyond that to try to do good.

In a related question, I have wondered about the difference between being good and being nice, or even kind. Must does the first assume the second?

Well, one could cultivate a rude and brash image while making anonymous donations, for example... :thinking:
 

AOA

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Good thing the OP raised this thought.

It's familiar to the way my sister, in particular, ascribes something or someone to be and in fact I've been in a limbo since yesterday when a friend of mine retorted how I concluded what a good body really is as compared to one that is decent but you pass for "good". Because once you see a really good body and know for a fact upon reckoning it is any other you saw that were just decent end up being just decent.

Yes, something or someone that is considered decent *just* passes and is not really good.

I call a lot of things just "decent" because they only give me a decent level of satisfaction.

I saw many average looking people at my brother's graduation last week and only a handful that looked decent. Nobody was good-looking. One INTJ girl I saw looked really decent but not enough to be good-looking still.
 

So It Goes

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Good is a very broad term. Good may associate with what is desirable (at the moment or toward an end), what is deemed morally virtuous, or of high quality. Religions, such as Taoism and Buddhism, might consider the good as whatever's simple and genuine, natural and dynamic, non-egotistical and non-craving.

The ancient Greeks were always striving after "the good" or what leads to a desirable end, from virtuous characteristics in an individual. For example, Socrates thought knowledge as "good" and ignorance as "evil" while Aristotle advocated the way of moderation between two extremes as a "good." To go to more modern times, some may argue for family and love as good, or they could buy an HD TV and consider that of "good quality." The definition of good depends on the person and their reasons for considering a thing or person good. Problems seem to arise when one person imposes their definition on another person, there's a disagreement between what is good, or there are unjustified means to achieve a so-called good end.
 

AOA

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Good thing the OP raised this thought.

It's familiar to the way my sister, in particular, ascribes something or someone to be and in fact I've been in a limbo since yesterday when a friend of mine retorted how I concluded what a good body really is as compared to one that is decent but you pass for "good". Because once you see a really good body and know for a fact upon reckoning it is any other you saw that were just decent end up being just decent.

Yes, something or someone that is considered decent *just* passes and is not really good.

I call a lot of things just "decent" because they only give me a decent level of satisfaction.

I saw many average looking people at my brother's graduation last week and only a handful that looked decent. Nobody was good-looking. One INTJ girl I saw looked really decent but not enough to be good-looking still.

Oh I meant it in terms of what is desirable.
 

miss fortune

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I've always thought that decency related more to mangers, I.e. common decency. Good, I thought, applies to morality. I would think that nice would be more similar to decent than good :thinking:
 

Lark

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I've been thinking about this lately...

When someone is described as a "decent" human being, it seems to imply that the person in question is barely passable when it comes to basic morality, or, at the very least, average in matters of virtue.

However, being described as "good" seems to place one a little above average in the "morality scale", from "being a nice guy" to "being a heroic figure".

So, in your opinion, where does the line between these two lie, approximately? What makes someone "good" or "decent"?

And where do you draw the line between "decent" and "crummy"? Is an isolated event enough for you to brand someone as "less than decent"?

I dont think this age is very decent, it calls the worst kinds of things good.

Indecency is positively valued as "good", in music, style, film and culture.

I've tried to get young people I've worked with to do as little as reflect on the music they listen to, like EminEm, without much success. I'll explain to them it appears to be full of hatred and menace and that EminEm just seems like a very angry guy.

There's a pretty simplistic idea repeated in response "he takes no shit from anyone", so I say "but does that mean giving everyone else shit?", carrying on the toxic cycle of hard heartedness seems to be the spirit of the age.
 

miss fortune

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I dont think this age is very decent, it calls the worst kinds of things good.

Indecency is positively valued as "good", in music, style, film and culture.

I've tried to get young people I've worked with to do as little as reflect on the music they listen to, like EminEm, without much success. I'll explain to them it appears to be full of hatred and menace and that EminEm just seems like a very angry guy.

There's a pretty simplistic idea repeated in response "he takes no shit from anyone", so I say "but does that mean giving everyone else shit?", carrying on the toxic cycle of hard heartedness seems to be the spirit of the age.

you do realize that every generation has the same complaints about the music of the next don't you? :whistling:
 

Lark

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you do realize that every generation has the same complaints about the music of the next don't you? :whistling:

I think about that you know, I know that my generation had Rage Against The Machine, and I was a big fan, still am, but I really think its different.

I think there's more than a generational thing at work here, I dont mind a lot of the music for instance, like Fifty Cent's In Tha Club (although what's he done lately? His follow ups where garbage) but there's something else afoot. Entrophy for sure.
 

miss fortune

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I think about that you know, I know that my generation had Rage Against The Machine, and I was a big fan, still am, but I really think its different.

I think there's more than a generational thing at work here, I dont mind a lot of the music for instance, like Fifty Cent's In Tha Club (although what's he done lately? His follow ups where garbage) but there's something else afoot. Entrophy for sure.

no matter what you say about Eminem I've STILL never heard as much pure anger in any singer as in Zach de la Roca :newwink: (and I'm a huge fan of RATM!)... does it really make a difference to you who the rage is directed at? to tell the truth rage against the government and large multinational corporations is more likely to lead to mass acts of terror that kill a lot of people than general pissed offedness against life, which have fewer victims :unsure:

Are you speaking of the divide between songs looking at society in a macro sense in the days of Public Enemy and KRS1 vs the more micro sense of things like Eminem now? :huh: In the end it's all the same... there's no difference... fuck the police v fuck my ex it's all the same :shrug:
 

Lark

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no matter what you say about Eminem I've STILL never heard as much pure anger in any singer as in Zach de la Roca :newwink: (and I'm a huge fan of RATM!)... does it really make a difference to you who the rage is directed at? to tell the truth rage against the government and large multinational corporations is more likely to lead to mass acts of terror that kill a lot of people than general pissed offedness against life, which have fewer victims :unsure:

Are you speaking of the divide between songs looking at society in a macro sense in the days of Public Enemy and KRS1 vs the more micro sense of things like Eminem now? :huh: In the end it's all the same... there's no difference... fuck the police v fuck my ex it's all the same :shrug:

I dont think its the same, RATM were angry but there was a method to the madness, it was pretty cerebral when you read the lyrics written down and wether it was the lyrics or the inlay cards fans went on to try and get a grip on what was being discussed here or books or thinkers being cited. Now I'm not one to have an exaggerated view of what all that meant, RATM where the most played and faded in and out on libertarian and right wing shock jock websites which were if anything anathema to the ideology behind the lyrics.

RATM and artists like that where never as popular here as EminEm are the like have been, I dont know all the reasons why for that, it seems to be the sort of tunes which appeal to the generation which wants to simultaneously try and convey complete apathy, ie "I dont give a f**k", and complete outrage, in more suttle and subliminal ways it has a greater capacity to shape mind and culture.

I know that this can appear like every generation's complaint, if it is then that's actually good, I can relax, things arent so bad and its like the changing of the seasons but I'm always very wary when I encounter any instance which could be rationalised that way because it could be minimising, seeking comfort, which is as bad as alarmism, probably worse even.
 

miss fortune

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I dont think its the same, RATM were angry but there was a method to the madness, it was pretty cerebral when you read the lyrics written down and wether it was the lyrics or the inlay cards fans went on to try and get a grip on what was being discussed here or books or thinkers being cited. Now I'm not one to have an exaggerated view of what all that meant, RATM where the most played and faded in and out on libertarian and right wing shock jock websites which were if anything anathema to the ideology behind the lyrics.

RATM and artists like that where never as popular here as EminEm are the like have been, I dont know all the reasons why for that, it seems to be the sort of tunes which appeal to the generation which wants to simultaneously try and convey complete apathy, ie "I dont give a f**k", and complete outrage, in more suttle and subliminal ways it has a greater capacity to shape mind and culture.

I know that this can appear like every generation's complaint, if it is then that's actually good, I can relax, things arent so bad and its like the changing of the seasons but I'm always very wary when I encounter any instance which could be rationalised that way because it could be minimising, seeking comfort, which is as bad as alarmism, probably worse even.

you're being just like Tipper Gore was about Prince's "darling Nikki"... overly alarmist :laugh:

you should be more concerned about the kids' parents than what music they are listening to anyways... despite the fact that I spent high school listening to RATM, Red Hot Chili Peppers and Sublime I'm not really much of one for drugs, California OR running away to join the Chiapas rebels :)
 

Lark

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you're being just like Tipper Gore was about Prince's "darling Nikki"... overly alarmist :laugh:

you should be more concerned about the kids' parents than what music they are listening to anyways... despite the fact that I spent high school listening to RATM, Red Hot Chili Peppers and Sublime I'm not really much of one for drugs, California OR running away to join the Chiapas rebels :)

Well if you're right there's no harm done, if I'm right then what? Which approach is it safer to take do you think?

There's a lot of kids without parents, a lot of kids who despite their parents are defacto parented by music and other cultural trends.
 

miss fortune

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Well if you're right there's no harm done, if I'm right then what? Which approach is it safer to take do you think?

There's a lot of kids without parents, a lot of kids who despite their parents are defacto parented by music and other cultural trends.

things are never as big of a deal as people make them out to be... look at things from the bigger perspective for a bit... it's not a big deal :laugh:
 

Lark

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things are never as big of a deal as people make them out to be... look at things from the bigger perspective for a bit... it's not a big deal :laugh:

Doesnt need to be a big deal to matter, we're not talking the end of civilisation here but just life being worse than it was, from a certain perspective, or at the very least no better. I know the point you're trying to make though. Thanks :)
 

FunnyDigestion

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Good, to me, is being on a mission... Living with a purpose, wilfully. Good people strive for a state of living closer to selflessness-- actively.

Meaning: outward energy. Looking around for people who are suffering.

For example, sitting in a monastery in self-denial isn't really good in my opinion. That's kind of a waste of time, although those people might be called "good people". & they might have an elemental goodness, but their living isn't goodness.

It's not such an extreme thing, really... i mean you don't have to be out in the Peace corps in African villages helping people hand-to-hand, feeding the sick. It could be as simple as living a normal life but looking everywhere for people in need, looking for occasions when you can step beyond your daily life.

Decent is more like doing good when the occasion arises, but not actively looking for those occasions.
 

Mole

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you do realize that every generation has the same complaints about the music of the next don't you? :whistling:

For three thousand years each generation has been getting worse. And this generation is no different.
 

Coriolis

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Well if you're right there's no harm done, if I'm right then what? Which approach is it safer to take do you think?

There's a lot of kids without parents, a lot of kids who despite their parents are defacto parented by music and other cultural trends.
Urging young people to contemplate their music won't work. It would be better simply to show them alternatives if that is possible. Assuming you did convince some of them to abandon the likes of Eminem; what then? Their playlist void might be filled by something equally objectionable, unless they have something better to replace it. As with a bad habit, it is easier to replace something bad with something better, than with nothing at all (simple elimination).

In general, the best way you can influence young people, or anyone at all, is to set the example you would like them to emulate. If you are willing, on top of this you can be open to any who approach you for further advice or information. Uninvited directness, though, may if anything just push them away.
 
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