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  1. #1
    Senior Member Spurgeon's Avatar
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    Question Is LOGIC the ultimate authority?

    Do you agree or disagree with the following statement?:

    "Logic cannot be the ultimate authority.
    If it were, we couldn't prove the laws of logic to be objectively authoritative in the first place, because we would have to assume they were authoritative in order to do so, which is circular reasoning."


    I'm not sure whether I agree with it or not (or whether it even makes sense).

    If possible, please explain the reasons for your position.
    Last edited by Spurgeon; 11-30-2011 at 10:33 AM. Reason: Edited for clarity

  2. #2
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    Silly INTJ... feelings are obviously the ultimate authority then. I mean logic arouses from us perceiving something as being objective. So saying logic is the ultimate authority is like saying were all objects. Objections?

  3. #3
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    Cannot resist...

    Logic isn't the ultimate authority. If you view politicians in general, regardless of whether they're elected, put in by right of might or inherited, there's nothing logical about them or how they govern...

    For that matter, there's nothing logical about laws, although application of interpretation of laws can be logical.

  4. #4
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
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    No, logic is not the ultimate authority.

    This is obvious.

    I won't even go into the question of what the hell it means to be the "ultimate authority".

    Samuel Beckett said it well enough:

    The eighteenth century has been called the century of reason, la siècle de la raison. I've never understood that: they're all mad, ils sont tous fous, ils déraisonnent! They give reason a responsibility which it simply can't bear, it's too weak.
    Einstein (an INTP), unlike most of his kin, managed to understand it:

    The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
    David Hume got it (mostly) right too:

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office than to serve and obey them.
    There are some qualifications I must add to Hume's claim, but, well, he's an ENTP, so you can't really expect him to get it just right.

    Which begs the question: why the switch from ENTP to INTJ? An INTJ would never be foolish enough to ask this.
    The Justice Fighter

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    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

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  5. #5
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    No.

    Edit: I'm the ultimate authority.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  6. #6
    Senior Member Spurgeon's Avatar
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    By the way, I didn't actually say I agree with the statement in the OP. I simply asked whether people agree with it or not.

    Maybe I should rephrase the question.

  7. #7
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    From what I can see the OP was about logic while all the replies so far were about reason.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  8. #8
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    From what I can see the OP was about logic while all the replies so far were about reason [says the NTP, clinging to her TiSi desire for logical/rational structure as tightly as she can].
    Hmm...

    I wonder why that might be.
    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Spurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Which begs the question: why the switch from ENTP to INTJ?

    I've done a lot of research lately and have come to the conclusion that I'm INTJ rather than ENTP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post

    An INTJ would never be foolish enough to ask this.
    Why is it foolish to ask this question?

  10. #10
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spurgeon View Post
    I've done a lot of research lately and have come to the conclusion that I'm INTJ rather than ENTP.
    Well, Z did mention once that he liked you..

    There must be a reason for that.

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