Real absolute and objective evil?

[Mole]

The Tell-Tale Umlaut

Keyser Söze is the one who wrote what you read when you read what I wrote. To you, we are one; yet I have never seen him. When he speaks, I talk; yet when I speak, he remains silent.

Oh my God (OMG) Nicodemus, you know that it is Keyser Söze with an umlaut.

Some say you are as close to Keyser Söze as whileness is to snow, or as close as an umlaut is to Söze.

I find this hard to believe Nicodemus. I have always seen you as a friend to us all. Someone who would make the perfect moderator. But now we discover the tell-tale umlaut.

But we are left on the kerb stupified as you speed off in your limousine.

 

[Sniffles]

The concept of evil is very silly indeed.

 

[Nicodemus]

Oh my God (OMG) Nicodemus, you know that it is Keyser Söze with an umlaut.

Some say you are as close to Keyser Söze as whileness is to snow, or as close as an umlaut is to Söze.

I find this hard to believe Nicodemus. I have always seen you as a friend to us all. Someone who would make the perfect moderator. But now we discover the tell-tale umlaut.

But we are left on the kerb stupified as you speed off in your limousine.

You misunderstood me, Victor. I am to Keyser Söze as... no, I shall not speak of it. The truth is shrouded in mystery and better be kept therein, only to be seen and embraced by those who are fit to grasp it on their own but on his terms.

I hope we understand each other now.

 

[FunnyDigestion]

Evil to me is an ironic word... I don't think I've ever used it earnestly, though it does have some importance to my internal guidance, regarding what choices to make & whatnot. There are some times where I'm thinking stuff & realize "hey, that's kind of some evil thinking," & then stop to figure out why I feel that.

 

[Nicodemus]

The concept of evil is very silly indeed.

Did you choose the signature just for that?

 

[Sniffles]

No but I couldn't help but notice how well it fits into this thread.

 

[Little_Sticks]

I'm not sure how to answer this. I see pain and suffering in all of us as evil and think the good comes from alleviating that. But if someone causes another to suffer in order to alleviate their suffering, I don't consider that good or evil, but ying and yang and something to be balanced.

So it would have an objective component of something we all would like and the subjective yin and yang part that muddles it and has consequence only through how we choose to understand and rationalize the balance.

I don't really know if that makes any sense though. It's an instinct I've always felt that always stops my will completely if I think I'm hurting someone to alleviate suffering of my own.

I think that's why I don't like being around people too much - that transference. It's a catch-22; screwed up people know that they screw up other people by being around them. Unfortunately, when someone attempts to help someone whose mind is full of cognitive dissonance, it means they have to be willing to have it transferred in an effort to resolve it. Most people don't care enough to be bothered or they are too busy juggling reality to keep themselves in check with that balance. The reasons are all individual and I don't suppose it makes sense to argue whether or not these reasons can be right or wrong or good and bad, but it does represent a recurring problem.

edit: It's kind of interesting that Jung's representation of the ego and the unconscious seem to be about a philosophical yin and yang, at least the way he describes them in relation to each other.

Evil exists only in the mind.
Minds exist.
A minds existence is real.
A minds existence is absolute.
A minds existence is objective.
Therefore; real, absolute and objective evil exists.

or something like that.

I like it when people compare things simply and thoroughly, but for completeness-sake, do you consider your first statement a postulate?

The Bible is not an ordinary book. Understanding it requires wisdom and knowlege which comes directly from God.

You seem interesting. I have a personal question for you though, if you don't mind indulging my curiosity over your personal sanctum. What is wisdom?

 

[Spurgeon]

You seem interesting. I have a personal question for you though, if you don't mind indulging my curiosity over your personal sanctum. What is wisdom?

Wisdom is knowing what is right and doing it. God does all things according to wisdom, and those who place their hope in him are wise.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

I'd imagine objective evil does not exist in the eyes of human. Though it can exist. Not as it is natural, but because we cease to exist, and without our perceptions the objectivity shines through.

 

[xisnotx]

If evil exists, it exists only in the mind. Similarly, if other abstract concepts like love or happiness exist, they only exist in the mind. You wont find something physical, in the real world, that is a substance of love, happiness or evil. If that is the question..then no, I don't believe physical evil exists..just as I don't believe physical love, or happiness exist.

I prove it to myself that evil exists in my mind by thinking the following.
Some of my thoughts are good.
Some of my thoughts bad.
Thoughts themselves are neither good nor bad. They just are.
Therefore there exists something separate from thoughts in me which influences my thoughts (and feelings, I guess) in ways I deem both positively, and negatively.**
The thing that influences my thoughts in ways I deem negatively, I call, and understand it as, evil.
Therefore, evil, as I understand the concept, exists.

Are there physical manifestations of evil that exist in the real world? Of course..just as there are physical manifestations of love, power, respect etc etc. But the evil, love, respect, power...etc..does not exist in the thing...it's merely a representation of the thing that exists in most peoples mind. It's why the money system works without it being backed up by anything in the real world anymore. Money, that is, the paper, metal, and plastic physical things that money is, represents wealth/power/whatever, abstract concepts, but concepts that are mutually agreed upon as valid by the masses. But, at the end of the day it's just paper/metal/plastic (and increasingly not even that..money is literally becoming digital information..or code..or communication), and even before that, it was just shiny stones...it's just humans have placed a value on it...as we do everything. If humans have the ability to place value on things, and a person places a value of "evil" on something, then, that thing proves that evil exist, for that person. A person who doesn't place a value of evil on anything exists in a state in which evil doesn't exist. But...I'd argue that there is no such thing as that person. I could be wrong though, who knows?

It's why "flower" can represent "love", but "flower" and "love" are two different things. A bouquet of flowers is only "love" it is meant to be. Otherwise, they are just biological organisms..

Does evil exist? Only in the mind. But "minds" are all we have, and know.

**I call this "humanity"...others call it "God"..others "common sense"...and the really myopic confuse this with ideologies that weren't even thought up by them..such as "America"..or "Liberalism" or "Conservatism"...it's truly disgusting. Anyway...

 

[FunnyDigestion]

If evil exists, it exists only in the mind. Similarly, if other abstract concepts like love or happiness exist, they only exist in the mind. You wont find something physical, in the real world, that is a substance of love, happiness or evil. If that is the question..then no, I don't believe physical evil exists..just as I don't believe physical love, or happiness exist.

But isn't the mind itself physical? I mean the brain itself-- it's made out of something, right? So anything that happens in it is some piece of physical matter. So, regardless of whether it's imagined or whatnot, one way or another it's there.

 

[xisnotx]

By "mind", I mean something closer to "consciousness". However, as far as consciousness goes, what it is, where it is, or even if it is, is beyond me. The physicalness of consciousness is something I have no clue about. As far as I know, it's been the focus of many people for 1000s of years.

I tend to think of it as a "code" of "communication" among different physical parts of the brain. Just like language isn't "physical"..but it exists, for sure. However "language" has physical manifestations, and so too does consciousness, or "minds". The code/consciousness is the "nature"...the physical brain is the "nurture". (Which is ironic since what I'm saying implies what traditionally has been thought of as nature is actually nurture, and what has been thought of as nurture, is actually closer to nature)..but, then again, how can it be doubted? Humans have been manipulating "nature" since the beginning, and intrinsic to human thought of nature has always been a sort of "permanency", which we ourselves have demonstrated time and time again to always be false. About the only consistent thing about nature is how inconsistent it seems. On the flip side, nurture seems to be pretty predictable and consistent, for the most part. History repeats itself..and all that jazz...(though the beautiful thing about nurture is how it is always the same, yet constantly changing. History, for example, is always the same, yet it is always changing.)

However, the mind, and consciousness, could quite conceivably be nothing but something physical. This is all just idle speculation. I wouldn't know for sure, or even know how to go about knowing for sure(other than some pretty ethically questionable experiments...lol)

 

[Green_Pine]

I think to answer the question one must first define evil, and for the purposes of my response it is anything that is inherently wrong.

I would say yes, evil certainly exists, and it is where one intentionally breaches a contract or encroaches upon another's person or property.

Also, I am aware that this is opinion to some and not fact. I believe that a western religious, or, more accurately, common law basis agrees with my statement, but for those who are not religious this may be a hard concept to understand from my point of view.

 

[Mole]

You misunderstood me, Victor. I am to Keyser Söze as... no, I shall not speak of it. The truth is shrouded in mystery and better be kept therein, only to be seen and embraced by those who are fit to grasp it on their own but on his terms.

I hope we understand each other now.

With respect.

 

[Ginkgo]

Do you believe that there is a real, absolute and obejctive evil in existence or is it just all a projection of peoples worst or wickednest traits by themselves onto an "other"?

Jung said both of these things, without considering there to be a seeming contradiction. Some how I think he is right, that it could be both but I'm not sure how I resolve the seeming contradiction.

Both. There is no contradiction. Couldn't it exist both ways? Why either/or? Nothing needs to be resolved.

 

[Ginkgo]

Sometimes I think people think the concept of evil is evil.

 

[freeeekyyy]

Do you believe that there is a real, absolute and obejctive evil in existence or is it just all a projection of peoples worst or wickednest traits by themselves onto an "other"?

Jung said both of these things, without considering there to be a seeming contradiction. Some how I think he is right, that it could be both but I'm not sure how I resolve the seeming contradiction.

Evil is a concept, not an entity. How are the two things different?

 

[Lark]

Evil is a concept, not an entity. How are the two things different?

Concepts are what?

I mean, gravity is a concept, it is also an objective force, without any conception the force still exerts itself and exists independent of any conceptualisation.

 

[freeeekyyy]

Concepts are what?

I mean, gravity is a concept, it is also an objective force, without any conception the force still exerts itself and exists independent of any conceptualisation.

And this is also true of evil.

 

[Lark]

And this is also true of evil.

Yes. AKA The Devil.