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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2010

    Default Progress for progresses sake must be discouraged.- Dolores Umbridge.

    Here is the full quote:

    "The Ministry of Magic has always considered the education of young witches and wizards to be of vital importance.The rare gifts with which you were born may come to nothing if not nurtured and honed by careful instruction. The ancient skills unique to the wizarding community must be passed down the generations lest we lose them for ever. The treasure trove of magical knowledge amassed by our ancestors must be guarded, replenished and polished by those who have been called to the noble profession of teaching.Every headmaster and headmistress of Hogwarts has brought something new to the wheighty task of governing this historic school, and that is as it should be, for without progress there will be stagnation and decay. There again, progress for progress's sake must be discouraged, for our tried and tested traditions often require no tinkering. A balance, then, between old and new, between permanence and change, between tradition and innovation because some changes will be for the better, while others will come, in the fullness of time, to be recognised as errors of judgement. Meanwhile, some old habits will be retained, and rightly so, whereas others, outmoded and outworn, must be abandoned. Let us move forward, then, into a new era of openness, effectiveness and accountability, intent on preserving what ought to be preserved, perfecting what needs to be perfected, and pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited."

    I remember reading this when I was younger but not quite understanding what she was saying. I also remember Hermione expressing her displeasure at the statement.

    My question is; Do you think that there is any truth to what Dolores Umbridge had to say, and by extension, perhaps, what Voldermort was ultimately trying to do?

    "Progress for progresses sake must be discouraged."-I'm starting to see the logic behind that..keep in mind that this isn't asserting progress must be discouraged..but rather the motivation behind the progress, i.e "for the sake of progress", should be discouraged.

    Progress, I guess, should have a "point", otherwise is it really progress? Or just "morphing stagnation"??

    And yeah yeah, I'm a nerd...

  2. #2
    Luminosity 2.0 Loona's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    7w6 so/sp
    ILE None


    It all strikes me as an annoying and manipulative game with words. Of course there needs to be some balance between old and new, but making what is existing better isn't in contradiction to making sure certain skills aren't lost. Why is it that something that is already working must not be made better? It smells of making excuses for keeping old ways around just because they are old and thinking that old stuff is inherently better or more trustworthy, but feeding it to us more moderately in a way that's hard to argue with to slowly get us all to agree upon maintaining some very limited vision for the world....

    Anyway, Dumbledore's Army ftw

  3. #3
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    One sx/sp


    Well, how do we define progress? Progress isn't merely changing something, it is changing something to yield a better result. We can all quibble over what a better result is, but I'm sure you have a concept of good and bad and can make an assertion about what you'd consider better, so you can form a concept of progress.

    In a sense, I think those who are afraid of progress don't believe real progress is possible. That is, they think change will only make things worse. We are at the peak, no where to go but down, might as well stay where we are. I don't believe that. Things can be improved. Change can make a net benefit, and in any situation where it can, it should.
    Go to sleep, iguana.

    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  4. #4
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010


    Progress would be locking these wizards up or putting them in a coma. A destructive lot, those wizards. Don't be fooled by Potter's and Hermione's innocent looks. Did anyone watch the Smurfs? One word: Gargamel. That's a real wizard.

  5. #5
    just a vessel EJCC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    173 so/sx


    Her word choice is strange. Like @Magic Poriferan said, "progress" implies improvement, and everyone wants improvement. Surely even Dolores Umbridge would see that.

    I think what she meant was "change", in that context. Change for the sake of change. Her monologue would be significantly less crazy if that was what she had said. Speaking as an SJ, I understand the need for balance between change and tradition. But progress? Progress is always the ideal. If something can be improved, then it should be improved.
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by Mkenya View Post
    Progress, I guess, should have a "point", otherwise is it really progress? Or just "morphing stagnation"??
    There's distinctions to be made between progress and change and a further distinction to be made between either of those things and chaos which can be a consequence of unanticipated change or breakdown when growth is impeaded.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2010


    ^But until we have hit that point, where a distinction is necessary, we can, for the time being, treat all of it equally.
    That essence. How we, as people, respond to any of these things shouldn't be dependent on which one of those things it is, for, in essence, they are all the same thing.
    Again, for the time being.

    Because progress, change, and chaos all have the same "point". The point of progress isn't to "progress"..the point of change isn't to "change"..and the point of chaos isn't "chaos" think so is a sad existence.

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