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  1. #11
    Liberator Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightsun View Post
    Coriolis wrote," Why bother trying to attain happiness? Seems if we try instead to develop our abilities, to contribute to the world around us, and to help others as we go along, happiness will take care of itself."

    Coriolis if it became happenstance-then why don't the populace indeed fpllow down unto a road called actualizing and fullfillment with your gift?
    Because developing their abilities takes work and sustained effort. Contributing to the world around them takes commitment and follow-through. And helping others requires thinking of someone beyond themselves. (Of course, if they would at least think of themselves constructively, this would already be an improvement.)

    Many people seem to prefer instant gratification, minimizing effort, and momentary good feelings.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #12
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Why bother trying to attain happiness? Seems if we try instead to develop our abilities, to contribute to the world around us, and to help others as we go along, happiness will take care of itself.
    How so? Also, (I've been wanting to ask an INTJ this for a while).. why the emphasis on contributing to the world? Wouldn't happiness be easier to find through acceptance of what exists? Or maybe I'm thinking contentment is more sustainable....
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  3. #13
    Liberator Coriolis's Avatar
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    How else would one try to attain happiness? By just sitting there and wishing oneself happy? That seems about as effective as wishing oneself physically fit, or smart, or capable. One becomes these things by taking action to bring them about. The connection is less direct for happiness, but it seems related to fulfillment and self-expression, which require one actually do something.

    To me, acceptance is not much better than stagnation, at least if one is accepting something that is negative or problematic. Acceptance means one has given up on trying to improve it. You might argue that some things cannot be improved. I would counter that more things can be improved more significantly than most people credit; they just aren't willing to put out the effort to do so. Acceptance is often preached by those who benefit from an undesirable status quo. I for one am never happy to accept something that can and should be improved. In fact, it is often in correcting such situations that I feel most fulfilled and by extension most happy.

    This gets close to your question about contribution. The textbook answer, at least for INTJs, would be to look how our functions work. Ni shows us how much better things could be; Te shows us how to get there; and Fi perhaps gives us motivation to do something about it. Using our ideas to influence the world around us is a significant part of our identity.

    More broadly, though, each of us has skills, talents, abilities, passions. What should we do about that? Leave them undeveloped, and just scrape through life doing the bare minimum? Develop them, and keep them to ourselves? Better, but still limited. Yes, we can paint a thousand paintings and hide them in the attic, to be discovered only after our death. We are likely to gain more, though, by sharing some of them with others, which is their gain as well. In this sense, developing one's creativity and expressing or exercising it beyond the sphere of the self is one's contribution.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #14
    Senior Member lightsun's Avatar
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    Hello Wind Up Rex it's an old format of mine. It did help with organizing. In the future I'll edit this.

  5. #15
    MyPeeSmellsLikeCoffee247 five sounds's Avatar
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    Happiness is found by giving yourself to the Creator's purpose for you. Nothing else is satisfying.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.
    Likes Forever liked this post

  6. #16
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    Bertand Russell wrote a book called The Conquest of Happiness, its probably the better book on the topic out of all the many, many books I've read, I also tend to disregard a lot of the more recent happiness science musing and stuff.

  7. #17
    Driving to Wewelsburg Typh0n's Avatar
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    I think what leads to happiness is different for everyone.
    Likes Flâneuse liked this post

  8. #18
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    If happiness was an attainment there would be a method.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  9. #19
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Attain happiness = avoid unhappiness

    Amazing how well this works.
    It is amazing how well it works. Perhaps it is because we are attuned to respond to unhappiness, so it is easier to see than happiness. So in a way unhappiness is a pointer to happiness, and all we have to do is follow the pointer to where it is pointing.

  10. #20
    Black Iris Glados's Avatar
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    I am taking happiness as a process of equilibrium here, because from my point of view, there can be no permanent happiness for everything must and is going to be balanced with its counter-opposite. I think that, you can only achieve equilibrium in your life by taking direct responsibility for your actions, life and psychological well-being. I can not say this is an easy path to choose, but eventually, it leads to maturity, growth and a personal sense of balance.
    "Water is cool and soothing, Earth is steady and stable. But Fire... Fire is alive, it breathes, it grows. Fire will spread and destroy everything in it's path if one does not have the will to control it. That is its destiny."
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