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Victor's thoughts on makeup

onemoretime

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Nah, that's not the case with me.....

My doing so is more based on 1) taking care of myself, and 2) an eye for an eye.

Taking care of yourself is your responsibility. Vengeance belongs to the gods. This is what basic human societies have understood since time immemorial.
 

ICUP

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Taking care of yourself is your responsibility. Vengeance belongs to the gods. This is what basic human societies have understood since time immemorial.

I wouldn't consider what I do a form of vengeance. I don't necessarily wish to inflict punishment for wrong-doings. I don't generally feel anyone has done anything "wrong" to me, in most cases. I described it as "eye for an eye", because I suppose it was the best way I could think of describing it, without going into a long, lengthy explanation. Maybe I should have more described it as, "if you are going to act like you do, then expect it back." I suppose "eye for an eye" implies that i think someone has hurt me. I don't think anyone on an internet forum can actually hurt me lol......
I think there's a grey area that many people don't think is bullying but I do, and that's what I am referring to. When I do it to others, I think it is bullying, but many others don't. Same with others. It's an arguable situation. But it's generally socially-acceptable behaviors ....... I don't think going as far as believing it is anything more than just child's play is going too far.

Technically, it IS bullying, but most people on this forum do it, at least on occasion. I have a low threshold for when I think someone is acting out-of-line, and occasionally, I do cross my own lines, in other words. That doesn't mean I like playing god lol...... whole different scenario, whole different person.

At the same time, i don't agree that "vengeance belongs to the gods", since I don't believe in gods in the first place.

I think we as a people decide to punish criminals, children, etc., all the time for bad behaviors when they are justified, and it's socially acceptable to do so, in method. That is not what Victor was choosing to do. His methods and the things he was punishing seemed to be an attempt to prune others toward believing his way, and both his method and ideas were both socially-unacceptable. The same cannot be said for me, even if you believe I enjoy "playing god", which I don't. In other words, there is a difference between a kind-hearted teacher and a morally-questionable cult-leader, even if both are doling out "punishments". There's a difference between a friendly mod who volunteers and a rule-breaker who continually disrupts, even though they both induce punishments on others.
 

Viridian

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Yeah, Victor could say he is going to the post office and I would think it's a metaphor for something else. :laugh:

Literature 101: everything is a metaphor.

1dpUq.png
 

iwakar

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[MENTION=3325]Victor[/MENTION]

And what of her cosmetic embellishments?
Himba_woman.jpg


or hers?
geisha.jpg


or hers?
tumblr_lkqsv26WKu1qcptm2o1_500.jpg


or his?
native_american.jpg


or his and hers?
maori-village-people_1371.jpg


It can be, but isn't always about:

mimicking sexual arousal
misrepresentation,

but don't forget:

status (leader, warrior, sage, white collar-professional, prostitute)
cultural identification
spirituality
social intent (marriage, war, age-related stage of life)
 

rav3n

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This. Hence we see the same pattern with no deviation, every time he starts a thread. Playing the victim allows him to maintain the role of misunderstood underdog genius. I think he gets exactly the kind of reaction he wants. And it's effective. Probably 17 pages out of this 20 page thread are devoted to discussing the Victor Mystique rather than the old "makeup mimics arousal" chestnut. He doesn't even have to have new material to maintain rockstar status. Just the greatest hits. Love him or hate him, we still talk about him.
It's all about the dopamine hit, innit?
 

Salomé

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This. Hence we see the same pattern with no deviation, every time he starts a thread. Playing the victim allows him to maintain the role of misunderstood underdog genius. I think he gets exactly the kind of reaction he wants. And it's effective. Probably 17 pages out of this 20 page thread are devoted to discussing the Victor Mystique rather than the old "makeup mimics arousal" chestnut. He doesn't even have to have new material to maintain rockstar status. Just the greatest hits. Love him or hate him, we still talk about him.

Victor's broken records >>>> bunch of halfwits talking about nail polish
I guess volume of posts alone reveals that (if it weren't self-evident).
 

ICUP

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Victor's broken records >>>> bunch of halfwits talking about nail polish
I guess volume of posts alone reveals that (if it weren't self-evident).

What are you? Victor's minion?
Why don't you arrange a time to go meet up and hang out with Victor. I bet you two would hit it off great.

Trust me, in your shoes, I wouldn't be calling anyone else a half-wit lmfao.
 

Tallulah

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Victor's broken records >>>> bunch of halfwits talking about nail polish
I guess volume of posts alone reveals that (if it weren't self-evident).

Why? The nail polish/makeup thread was accomplishing the purpose it was started for. No one intended to solve any major world issues in that thread, and yet some (yes, intelligent) posters found answers to questions they had about something they use in their daily lives. Talking about nail polish doesn't make one a half-wit. And threads like that are also a way that posters share their experience with other posters, creating good will. I think that's pretty useful.

Victor starts threads about the same two ideas, then refuses to engage people in an honest debate about his ideas. He decides to interpret genuine engagement as bullying, and nothing happens except a discussion about Victor and his methods. People then jump in and defend him, as you are doing, but the defenses always imply that there's some element of genius that the rest of the board is missing. I don't buy it. No one who defends him ever offers any evidence for this supposed genius. There are plenty of reasonable, flexible, intelligent people on the boards that would be willing to listen to Victor's ideas if he were willing to engage beyond his current level. I don't care for his style, it's true, but I could very easily look past it if he were willing to take what others are saying and create an actual dialogue with them, rather than delivering them as a pronouncements that must be swallowed in their entirety. Why is it okay for Victor to assume that every time someone disagrees with him, it must be because they are afraid of controversy or afraid of change? He never provides any evidence for this idea. But we're supposed to see him as some sort of anti-MBTI prophet. I suspect this is probably another Fi vs Fe thing for a lot of people. Why should Victor have to change his tactics to suit all of you, etc. Answer: he doesn't have to, but he can't expect a different result, and loads of people are tired of his schtick, and have every right to be tired of it.

Frankly, I'm not sure why we aren't allowed to be annoyed with Victor's tactics. He's off-limits, where others can be ripped to shreds at will. He's not defenseless or weak, and he is perfectly capable of coming up with a tactic to reach more people with his "message," if that is truly what he desires. But it's not. Perhaps he feels like amending his style of communication renders him inauthentic. That's fine. But it will be received the same way each and every time.
 

Tiltyred

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[MENTION=5723]Tiltyred[/MENTION]: Neither of us can no for sure whether he is just "pulling stuff out of his ass" and trying to cause trouble as you believe or if he really believes what he is saying. I'm inclined to believe the latter and completely agree with what [MENTION=6877]Marmie Dearest[/MENTION] most recently wrote. But still, the fact remains that your opinion that he is a troll is just an opinion and cannot be proven.

1. "Troll" has a definition. If you do the things that fit the definition, you are a troll.
2. You can prove something by observing it and seeing if it repeats predictably. It does.


Whether he truly believes what he is saying has nothing to do with whether or not he's a troll. Those are two separate issues.
 

ICUP

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People then jump in and defend him, as you are doing, but the defenses always imply that there's some element of genius that the rest of the board is missing. I don't buy it.

Smart.

Now THAT'S the laugh of the day.....
Anyone who thinks Vic is a genius, must be missing a few marbles themselves. That's just pathetic.
While I think Vic is funny (as I usually do, people of his type), as I do many others, I realize it's because he's missing a few marbles himself, and is actually far from genius.
Yes, he has a few skills, but I'm not stupid enough to label that genius. There are a lot of talented, successful people amongst us. Wow. What rock have you people been hiding under?!
Let me offer you followers of Vic a few books you can read that might broaden your minds a little. http://www.charliemanson.com/books.htm

No one who defends him ever offers any evidence for this supposed genius.

Yea, minions usually don't have any reasons. They just want to be led.

[MENTION=5723]Tiltyred[/MENTION]: Neither of us can no for sure whether he is just "pulling stuff out of his ass" and trying to cause trouble as you believe or if he really believes what he is saying. I'm inclined to believe the latter and completely agree with what [MENTION=6877]Marmie Dearest[/MENTION] most recently wrote. But still, the fact remains that your opinion that he is a troll is just an opinion and cannot be proven.

Yea? I call anyone who continually disrupts threads repeatedly, at the very least, a rule-breaker who doesn't care whether he is causing the mods more trouble and work, or not. The mods are going out of their way to take care of things, because he is demanding it by disrupting. THAT'S A SIGN..... does that make sense to you? Would you continually break the rules, and be told that you need to stop, but continue? Whether derailed threads bother ME or not, if a mod tells me to stop, I generally will listen, out of respect for others.
 
G

Ginkgo

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Why? The nail polish/makeup thread was accomplishing the purpose it was started for. No one intended to solve any major world issues in that thread, and yet some (yes, intelligent) posters found answers to questions they had about something they use in their daily lives. Talking about nail polish doesn't make one a half-wit. And threads like that are also a way that posters share their experience with other posters, creating good will. I think that's pretty useful.

Victor starts threads about the same two ideas, then refuses to engage people in an honest debate about his ideas. He decides to interpret genuine engagement as bullying, and nothing happens except a discussion about Victor and his methods. People then jump in and defend him, as you are doing, but the defenses always imply that there's some element of genius that the rest of the board is missing. I don't buy it. No one who defends him ever offers any evidence for this supposed genius. There are plenty of reasonable, flexible, intelligent people on the boards that would be willing to listen to Victor's ideas if he were willing to engage beyond his current level. I don't care for his style, it's true, but I could very easily look past it if he were willing to take what others are saying and create an actual dialogue with them, rather than delivering them as a pronouncements that must be swallowed in their entirety. Why is it okay for Victor to assume that every time someone disagrees with him, it must be because they are afraid of controversy or afraid of change? He never provides any evidence for this idea. But we're supposed to see him as some sort of anti-MBTI prophet. I suspect this is probably another Fi vs Fe thing for a lot of people. Why should Victor have to change his tactics to suit all of you, etc. Answer: he doesn't have to, but he can't expect a different result, and loads of people are tired of his schtick, and have every right to be tired of it.

Frankly, I'm not sure why we aren't allowed to be annoyed with Victor's tactics. He's off-limits, where others can be ripped to shreds at will. He's not defenseless or weak, and he is perfectly capable of coming up with a tactic to reach more people with his "message," if that is truly what he desires. But it's not. Perhaps he feels like amending his style of communication renders him inauthentic. That's fine. But it will be received the same way each and every time.

Victor won this thread before it was even started.

Firstly, he's convinced you that he's off-limits when he's really not.
Secondly, he's set in a motion controversy about himself which deflects from the original issue.
Thirdly, if he's got a few screws loose in the attic, or is as unintelligent as you might suggest, then all the more reason to disregard him. Yet, you attend to his nonsense and simplistic ideas anyway. If Victor's ideas lack common sense, then what's the big issue? Think about it this way: if you were to meet someone who was trying to convince you the sun revolved around the earth, and was unwilling to listen to reason, would you really blow that much steam if he didn't listen to you? I wouldn't. All the more reason to consider him a nut or a troll and move on. If you ask me, challenging nonsense as though your personal vitality is at stake strongly suggests some insecurity on your part, whether it be about the marrow of the topic you're discussing or something else entirely.
 

Tiltyred

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Tallulah's not insecure.

There's more to it than his notions. (See? I'm nice. I left out the adjective.)
 

ICUP

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Victor won this thread before it was even started.

And you see this as some sort of game?

Thirdly, if he's got a few screws loose in the attic, or is as unintelligent as you might suggest, then all the more reason to disregard him.

I don't think he's unintelligent, in some ways. He's just nutty. :D He obviously reads and he has a good memory. To be a genius requires creativity and originality that Victor could not possess.
I actually am watching this because it's funny to me, and I enjoy observing it. Really, all-in-all, it has absolutely nothing to do with Victor himself, but the role that Victor is playing and how people respond to it. I also enjoy posting my views, and seeing how people will respond to me. It's interesting for people who are into psychology.

I'm detached from it all.
 

Tallulah

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Victor won this thread before it was even started.

Firstly, he's convinced you that he's off-limits when he's really not.
Secondly, he's set in a motion controversy about himself which deflects from the original issue.
Thirdly, if he's got a few screws loose in the attic, or is as unintelligent as you might suggest, then all the more reason to disregard him. Yet, you attend to his nonsense and simplistic ideas anyway. If Victor's ideas lack common sense, then what's the big issue? Think about it this way: if you were to meet someone who was trying to convince you the sun revolved around the earth, and was unwilling to listen to reason, would you really blow that much steam if he didn't listen to you? I wouldn't. All the more reason to consider him a nut or a troll and move on. If you ask me, challenging nonsense as though your personal vitality is at stake strongly suggests some insecurity on your part, whether it be about the marrow of the topic you're discussing or something else entirely.

Hey, armchair psychiatrist, I could care less about what Victor posts, and in fact, have him on ignore. What we've been talking about for the last 17 pages is, in fact, Victor and his tactics. The effect he creates on the forum is a moderately interesting topic, and more interesting than anything he posts, in my opinion. Having an opinion on that is relevant to this discussion, with these posters, and nothing more.
 

King sns

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Hey, armchair psychiatrist, I could care less about what Victor posts, and in fact, have him on ignore. What we've been talking about for the last 17 pages is, in fact, Victor and his tactics. The effect he creates on the forum is a moderately interesting topic, and more interesting than anything he posts, in my opinion. Having an opinion on that is relevant to this discussion, with these posters, and nothing more.

Hmm. You have Victor on ignore? I am rather confused by this anti-Victor sentiment a lot of people have. I used to think he was kind of silly. Now I think he has some interesting comments and unusual opinions, and he's also still silly. :laugh: I have tried and failed to see where the anti-Victor comes from. I am completely blind to any bad intent. I feel like I'm missing a Victor ear or eye that a lot of people seem to have. I feel the same way about people who are in the opposite opinion about him.
 

Thalassa

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Hmm. You have Victor on ignore? I am rather confused by this anti-Victor sentiment a lot of people have. I used to think he was kind of silly. Now I think he has some interesting comments and unusual opinions, and he's also still silly. :laugh: I have tried and failed to see where the anti-Victor comes from. I am completely blind to any bad intent.

Yeah I agree it seems excessive. It would be different if he was this openly nasty person.

Of course, as I've said repeatedly, I also don't understand why people get so upset about derailed threads, either.
 
G

Ginkgo

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And you see this as some sort of game?

I don't know if he sees it as a game, but he's certainly persistent in his strategy. It's kind of amusing in any case.



I don't think he's unintelligent, in some ways. He's just nutty. :D To be a genius requires creativity and originality that Victor could not possess.
I actually am watching this because it's funny to me, and I enjoy observing it. Really, all-in-all, it has absolutely nothing to do with Victor himself, but the role that Victor is playing and how people respond to it. I also enjoy posting my views, and seeing how people will respond to me. It's interesting for people who are into psychology.

I'm detached from it all.
You and I are in a similar boat.

Hey, armchair psychiatrist, I could care less about what Victor posts, and in fact, have him on ignore.
You have him on ignore. Let me guess... because you don't care about what he says? That makes sense. :rolleyes:
What we've been talking about for the last 17 pages is, in fact, Victor and his tactics. The effect he creates on the forum is a moderately interesting topic, and more interesting than anything he posts, in my opinion. Having an opinion on that is relevant to this discussion, with these posters, and nothing more.
It certainly is interesting. Interesting enough to be in the graveyard and not the philosophy section.
 
A

Anew Leaf

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Hmm. You have Victor on ignore? I am rather confused by this anti-Victor sentiment a lot of people have. I used to think he was kind of silly. Now I think he has some interesting comments and unusual opinions, and he's also still silly. :laugh: I have tried and failed to see where the anti-Victor comes from. I am completely blind to any bad intent. I feel like I'm missing a Victor ear or eye that a lot of people seem to have. I feel the same way about people who are in the opposite opinion about him.

I agree here. I've been out of the loop for awhile but I don't really get what is going on in this thread. Admittedly I didn't read much because... well, it wasn't interesting.

I feel like I am either missing something or interpreting what is going on in an entirely different fashion. Either way the vitriol makes little sense to me going either way.
 

Tiltyred

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I'm not sure whether you really mean what you say half the time, but I can explain to you why derailed threads upset me. It's as if you are listening to music that you thoroughly enjoy, and then somebody abruptly puts on bagpipes or marching band music full blast, and you have no choice then but to listen to bagpipes or marching band music.

In the example here, pretend it's guys who are really into motorcycles talking about their motorcycles. Would you jump into that conversation with "I don't think people should ride motorcycles. Motorcycles are dangerous." I hope your answer would be "No," or "Yes, if I were feeling masochistic."
 
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