Admitting you aren't Christian

[substitute]

America and religion is fascinating. I have the impression that Western Europe is not into churches at all, but probably there is a strong spiritual need. Question is: is the American situation our past or our future?
Here it seems hard to admit that you are a Christian, nowadays...

Absolutely. Glad someone else is saying that and not just me for a change

yes there is still a strong spiritual need, at least it's what I find everywhere I go in my chaplaincy type roles. It seems people are much more willing to approach a chaplain to talk over things and get help, support, guidance etc, than to go to actual church. It's strange how I find I get more inundated with people wanting to talk when I'm not in a religious building. Hospitals, colleges, prisons, airports, community centres - they come flocking. But I can spend all day in a cathedral or church and get no more than five or so, sometimes none.

 

[Blackmail!]

I generally say I'm atheist by belief, Jewish by culture, and if they challenge that, start arguing. Being an atheistic jew is fairly important to me, and I have no problem telling people that. I do not celebrate Christian holidays, and I don't want to. I'm explain things nicely, but I see no need to apologize for my beliefs. I'll explain as much about Judaism as someone wants (assuming I know it), but I'm lucky I suppose.

My situation is exactly similar to yours, except than in France, the vast majority of the population is atheist, and the state is almost fully secularized.

The minority of people who still believe in God here mostly are either strong conservatives (politically speaking), or either muslims.

However, my last name isn't Jewish, so that can confuse people. ^.^

Again, it's the same for me. My last name is celtic (thanks to my father).

 

[substitute]

I wouldn't agree with that Blackmail... my home territory of Normandy and neighbouring areas like Amiens, Brittany, etc as well as Gascony and the Pyrenees area... lots of practicing Catholics there... I'd say about 35% of France actually says specifically that they're atheist, but my experience says that outside of Paris and other big cities, most people call themselves 'spiritual but not religious', many say they're agnostic, many say Catholic and there's quite a lot of neo-paganism around, druids and new age people and what-not, but by no means would I agree that the majority call themselves atheist...

There must be some national survey about this where we could get reliable figures... lol

edit - oh, here you go: Religion in France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Tallulah]

It depends on where you live and the circles you run in. Amongst my family and in my home town, Christianity is expected as the norm. When I was in grad school and in theatre, being a Christian was looked on with suspicion. It's entirely contextual. I wouldn't say either side has it harder--it just depends on your circumstances.

I'm a Christian, but I accept that others don't share my beliefs. I don't appreciate it when people assume that if you're a Christian, you must just not be smart enough to have realized it's a load of bull. That's just as narrowminded as Christians that try to shove their beliefs down others' throats.

 

[Seanan]

I don't appreciate it when people assume that if you're a Christian, you must just not be smart enough to have realized it's a load of bull. That's just as narrowminded as Christians that try to shove their beliefs down others' throats.

Exactly and that applies to "faith" period. Along that line, I said on another thread, the more logical one is, the more courageous faith becomes... definitely not for whimps or sissies. The point was totally missed... not even comprehended... because of the prevailing mindset of the "unfaithful." It seems they view people of faith as gutless bafoons.

 

[reason]

I grew up in a pastafarian home. My parents were both fundamentalists, and my brother and two sisters followed them in lockstep. It was very difficult when I eventually "came out." I still remember the day like it was yesterday; at evening dinner on the 5th of April 2008 I let it slip that I had eaten noodles the night before while visiting a friend. (The eating of noodles is considered a terrible sin in pastafarianism, or at least the fundamentalist kind). At this revelation, my mother almost choked on her food and my father stared dumbstruck, horrified and distraught. I eventually admitted that I no longer believed, and hadn't for a long time.

There were some difficult times after that; arguments raged and threats were made, but eventually the dust settled. They have accepted me now, as much as they can do. In fact, my father remains convinced that I will reconvert--he just cannot accept that I do not feel His noodly appendage.

 

[Usehername]

I grew up in a pastafarian home. My parents were both fundamentalists, and my brother and two sisters followed them in lockstep. It was very difficult when I eventually "came out." I still remember the day like it was yesterday; at evening dinner on the 6th of April 2008 I let it slip that I had eaten noodles the night before while visiting a friend. (The eating of noodles is considered a terrible sin in pastafarianism, or at least the fundamentalist kind). At this revelation, my mother almost choked on her food and my father stared dumbstruck, horrified and distraught. I eventually admitted that I no longer believed, and hadn't for a long time.

There were some difficult times after that; arguments raged and threats were made, but eventually the dust settled. They have accepted me now, as much as they can do. In fact, my father remains convinced that I will reconvert--he just cannot accept that I do not feel His noodly appendage.

April 6 2008 is today, dude. Your story would be funnier if this wasn't confusing.

 

[reason]

April 6 2008 is today, dude. Your story would be funnier if this wasn't confusing.

Typing error corrected.

There is nothing funny about my story. Have some compassion.

 

[NoahFence]

It seems they view people of faith as gutless bafoons.

"Mindless robots" is closer I think. Or maybe "Brainwashed hippies".

 

[cafe]

Typing error corrected.

There is nothing funny about my story. Have some compassion.

*pats nocturne awkwardly on the back and passes him a plate of lo mein*

 

[skip]

I find that I frequently get invited to church events by new acquaintances

You don't have to be Christian to go an event at a church. You don't even have to be religious to attend a service.

 

[LostInNerSpace]

I grew up in a pastafarian home. My parents were both fundamentalists, and my brother and two sisters followed them in lockstep. It was very difficult when I eventually "came out." I still remember the day like it was yesterday; at evening dinner on the 5th of April 2008 I let it slip that I had eaten noodles the night before while visiting a friend. (The eating of noodles is considered a terrible sin in pastafarianism, or at least the fundamentalist kind). At this revelation, my mother almost choked on her food and my father stared dumbstruck, horrified and distraught. I eventually admitted that I no longer believed, and hadn't for a long time.

There were some difficult times after that; arguments raged and threats were made, but eventually the dust settled. They have accepted me now, as much as they can do. In fact, my father remains convinced that I will reconvert--he just cannot accept that I do not feel His noodly appendage.

You're an inspiration to us all! You should write a speech on the "State of Rice Relations in America". Promote it on YouTube. The Noodles company is a fine example. They serve Asian, Italian, and Western items conveniently ranked in order of popularity. One thing that concerns me is the stink of a segregationist separate but equal policy. They list Asian items in one column, then Italian items, then western items in the final column.

 

[Wandering]

in France, the vast majority of the population is atheist,

From my experience: they are not so much atheist as ignorant. True atheism is a position deliberately chosen based on knowledge/understanding of faith and religion. What we have in France is tons of people who have no idea what faith and religion actually are, and who are thus "atheist by default". I don't call that atheism.

The minority of people who still believe in God here mostly are either strong conservatives (politically speaking),

Huh ? Religious people fall over the political spectrum in France like anywhere else.

 

[Blackmail!]

(Au fait, salut tous les deux, Wandering et Substitute! :hi:
Je dis cela aussi pour le plaisir de faire un peu rimer cette jolie langue francaise dans les endroits les plus incongrus)

I wouldn't agree with that Blackmail...

Why don't you agree? Your link just confirmed what I said.

Barely one third of the french population still believes in God, hence it's a minority.

But it's true that within the university where I work, atheists are everywhere, especially among colleagues.

 

[Blackmail!]

From my experience: they are not so much atheist as ignorant. True atheism is a position deliberately chosen based on knowledge/understanding of faith and religion. What we have in France is tons of people who have no idea what faith and religion actually are, and who are thus "atheist by default". I don't call that atheism.

No. What you are describing is implicit atheism, the natural state of men when they have no knowledge of religion, and it's a true kind of atheism, no doubt about it.

I am myself an atheist not because I can prove there is no God, but because I find the question of His existence irrelevant. It is called weak atheism, and it widely differs from agnosticism (a true agnostic would find the question interesting, but confess he can not answer it).

Huh ? Religious people fall over the political spectrum in France like anywhere else.

Of course!

But as matter of fact, there is a real correlation between political votes and religion attendance. In my own region, Brittany, the areas which are religious vote for the conservatives, with scores often as high as 70-80%, while in the areas where atheism is prevailing, the left/liberal wins. Such trend is very, very easy to notice. Check what's happening between the Leon and the Tregor, for instance!

 

[Martoon]

I'm a Christian, but I accept that others don't share my beliefs. I don't appreciate it when people assume that if you're a Christian, you must just not be smart enough to have realized it's a load of bull. That's just as narrowminded as Christians that try to shove their beliefs down others' throats.

Exactly. I find evangelical atheists every bit as obnoxious as evangelical theists.

From my observations, it seems that around 98% of people believe what they do because other people do, not because of any actual research of their own. Which particular people an individual decides to coincide their beliefs with can be determined by many things, but it still comes down to believing something because you associate yourself with some group of people whose opinion you trust. The problem is, most of those people are doing the same.

For example, the majority of people that I've encountered think that we carbon date dinosaur fossils as being millions of years old. In reality, carbon dating isn't useful for measuring back more than about 40 thousand years, so that's not how scientists determine the age of dinosaur fossils. I'm not saying that these people are wrong if they believe that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago; I'm saying that their reason for believing this basically comes down to "because really smart guys in white labcoats with clipboards said so."

 

[arborvitae]

You don't have to be Christian to go an event at a church. You don't even have to be religious to attend a service.

I agree completely. I mention earlier in the thread that I often go to other religious services just for the experience and atmosphere. However, if you're going with a friend its going to be difficult to allow them to keep their assumptions in a conversation with them about the service.

 

[arborvitae]

Move to either coast, Arborvitae, and your problem will likely be solved.

Haha, yeah. This was one of the biggest cultural differences I noticed from Texas when I lived in Massachusetts for a couple years. People generally minded their own business about religion, and when I told them I was a Unitarian they actually knew what it was. I guess its just a sacrifice I'll have to make for living in the great state of Texas

There was a fair amount of Christianity-bashing at the liberal arts college in MA that I attended. I can see how other posters in this thread would have been afraid to admit they were Christian in an environment like that.

Ironically, it was really cool to be Jewish. People would sit around going through their genealogies so they could claim to be Jewish (while scarfing down a plate of bacon and eggs, I should add). It was also widely accepted to be Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, or any other world religion other than Christian.

 

[Seanan]

I agree completely. I mention earlier in the thread that I often go to other religious services just for the experience and atmosphere. However, if you're going with a friend its going to be difficult to allow them to keep their assumptions in a conversation with them about the service.

Right after attending a service with a friend, I mentioned my discomfort hearing Jesus referred to as God so many times during the sermon. Her response was "I don't discuss religion" and that can always be said to avoid that situation.

 

[Seanan]

There was a fair amount of Christianity-bashing at the liberal arts college in MA that I attended. I can see how other posters in this thread would have been afraid to admit they were Christian in an environment like that.

I think you've nailed one of the primary reasons for the rise in atheism and ideological socialism. I watch a satellite channel (can't remember the name just now) that broadcasts college lectures.. I don't know if they're actuall classes but they are televising lecture by professors to students. I've watched many that center on "disproving" the existance of God "scientifically." In quotes because they never really do. They just use their "high brow" credentials as "proof." They get really sarcastic and, in fact, I've seen atheistist on groups behave very much the same way using almost direct quotes from these lectures.... belittling and attacking theists for a lack off intelligence. But if they're so "intelligent" ... why the prejudice? Acedamians have always molded society from their ivory towers.