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Degrees of Feminism

Lark

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That's the second :wtf: moment in this thread.

Well if you're going to post stupid shit you're going to get stupid shit in response. Or perhaps you thought I was being something other than disingenious.

I really think that you should wise up in your posting behaviour and its not the first time I've said it. I really dont think you add ANYTHING to the discussions when you trawl threads looking to make citations out of all context to try and score points of engage in the sorts of name calling or PC interventions which will shut down discussion.
 

Helios

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As much as I am in favor of gay equality, I have to say... please stop bandying this term about. Not all people who do not support gay rights are afraid of gay people, which is what this term means.

This is a common misconception: the term doesn't necessarily imply a fear of homosexuals or homosexuality, and can (lexically) mean an irrational hatred, etc.:

"irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals" (source)

"unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals and homosexuality." (source)

"1. Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men." (source)

"an extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people." (source)
 

Helios

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Well if you're going to post stupid shit you're going to get stupid shit in response. Or perhaps you thought I was being something other than disingenious.

It's stupid to point out flagrant homophobia? I see.

I really think that you should wise up in your posting behaviour and its not the first time I've said it. I really dont think you add ANYTHING to the discussions when you trawl threads looking to make citations out of all context to try and score points of engage in the sorts of name calling or PC interventions which will shut down discussion.

Because it's "PC" and "name calling" to point out flagrant homophobia? I see.
 

jimrckhnd

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781000_f520.jpg
 

onemoretime

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It's stupid to point out flagrant homophobia? I see.



Because it's "PC" and "name calling" to point out flagrant homophobia? I see.

It's more helpful to the discussion if you ask him why he considers lesbians as a point of contention in this issue, rather than bandy about a word whose only purpose is to shut down discussion and shame the target for breaching a purported social norm.
 

Helios

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It's more helpful to the discussion if you ask him why he considers lesbians as a point of contention in this issue, rather than bandy about a word whose only purpose is to shut down discussion and shame the target for breaching a purported social norm.

I already know why he "considers lesbians as a point of contention" (what a wonderful euphemism). He doesn't need my permission to defend himself. Abject, repugnant stupidity ought to be shamed.
 

onemoretime

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I already know why he "considers lesbians as a point of contention" (what a wonderful euphemism). He doesn't need my permission to defend himself. Abject, repugnant stupidity ought to be shamed.

Then it seems that you are not interested in a discussion, and would rather moralize. That's your prerogative. However, I would advise anyone in this thread to give up on any hopes of meaningful discussion with you, as it appears to be a waste of both time and energy.
 

Helios

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Then it seems that you are not interested in a discussion, and would rather moralize. That's your prerogative. However, I would advise anyone in this thread to give up on any hopes of meaningful discussion with you, as it appears to be a waste of both time and energy.

There's no moralising here. I'm simply no more interested in discussing the acceptability of homophobia than I am the truthfulness of the flat Earth theory. There are some positions which ought to be rejected prima facie, such is their odiousness or foolishness. All they then deserve is to be ridiculed.
 

Orangey

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As much as I am in favor of gay equality, I have to say... please stop bandying this term about. Not all people who do not support gay rights are afraid of gay people, which is what this term means. I have several acquaintances who disagree wholeheartedly with homosexual behavior, but who actually have several friends that they routinely hang out with who are gay. This struck me as a bit weird, but nonetheless, it's where I got my point from. In a similar manner, if I like the color red, and you do not, expressing your disapproval (that being the extent of the disagreement), I would not call you a redophobe. You're not afraid of the color red. You just don't like it as much as I do.
A homophobe is someone who runs around calling people epithets to try to cover up his own latent fear that he'll become like those he hates. It's disgusting.

I don't think that the term "homophobia" is restricted simply to that literal definition of fear of gay people. It has come to be the representative term for a variety of anti-gay positions, and I believe being anti-gay marriage would qualify as a homophobic position.

I suppose one would only argue that it is NOT homophobic IF they thought that some anti-gay marriage positions were defensible. Hence your example with the color red. If you really think that your example is analogous to the gay marriage issue, then you must think that anti-gay marriage positions are as understandable and acceptable as someone preferring another color.

You are aware that being friends with and enjoying the company of gays does not mean that someone is not homophobic, right? I've known a couple of people, for instance, that have gay friends and acquaintances but who, when asked about gay political issues, would say something heinous like, "I have no problem with them personally, but I just don't want their type of lifestyle to be shoved down my throat."
 

onemoretime

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There's no moralising here. I'm simply no more interested in discussing the acceptability of homophobia than I am the truthfulness of the flat Earth theory. There are some positions which ought to be rejected prima facie, such is their odiousness or foolishness. All they then deserve is to be ridiculed.

You think the Earth is an oblate spheroid? How... four-dimensional of you.
 

Jaguar

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I've known a couple of people, for instance, that have gay friends and acquaintances but who, when asked about gay political issues, would say something heinous like, "I have no problem with them personally, but I just don't want their type of lifestyle to be shoved down my throat."

Lifestyle. I wonder how many years before that word is nixed when discussing homosexuals. Some people might not want my heterosexual 'lifestyle' shoved down their throat.
 
A

Anew Leaf

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Do you all know when this kind of ad will disappear?
...once women stop caring about these type of jokes.
Meanwhile, let me share a joke about women using computers.
firstlz.jpg


MINUTES LATER....

secondqf.jpg

FFFFFFFUUUUUUUU.jpg

LOL!

That is totally what would happen with me and my ENFP mom at work. She'd be alone with the computer for 5 minutes and then I'd hear, "Saturned... um the computer DID STUFF AND IT WASNT ME!!!" And I would peek around the monitor to 30 IE windows open because it didn't load instantly when she clicked it the first 20 times.... and a pac man game up... and ebay listings... and yeah. Good times actually. :) I kind of miss being the IT girl at work now.
 

Orangey

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I wonder how many years before that word is nixed when discussing homosexuals.

However many years it takes for people to realize that people do not elect to be homosexuals out of some sort of pathology.
 

Thalassa

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Do you all know when this kind of ad will disappear?
...once women stop caring about these type of jokes.
Meanwhile, let me share a joke about women using computers.
firstlz.jpg


MINUTES LATER....

secondqf.jpg

FFFFFFFUUUUUUUU.jpg

There are differences between men and women, and that often even extends to the mind (the female corpus callosum connects the left and right side of the brain more closely than in the male brain...other things have been linked to a "male" brain, like that finger test, and of course hormones will make us have slightly different behaviors, too, no matter what) and if you add that to differences in socialization...men and women are probably always going to make fun of each other to some extent.

On the other hand, it doesn't have to be so childishly "girls r dumb lulz" because we all know that just isn't true, on average.
 

Thalassa

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LOL!

That is totally what would happen with me and my ENFP mom at work. She'd be alone with the computer for 5 minutes and then I'd hear, "Saturned... um the computer DID STUFF AND IT WASNT ME!!!" And I would peek around the monitor to 30 IE windows open because it didn't load instantly when she clicked it the first 20 times.... and a pac man game up... and ebay listings... and yeah. Good times actually. :) I kind of miss being the IT girl at work now.

Yeah I didn't even take that joke as sexist. My very first thought was "people make fun of the older generation for not knowing how to work computers as well."
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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I suppose one would only argue that it is NOT homophobic IF they thought that some anti-gay marriage positions were defensible. Hence your example with the color red. If you really think that your example is analogous to the gay marriage issue, then you must think that anti-gay marriage positions are as understandable and acceptable as someone preferring another color.
Yes, the analogy with preferring red is flawed. People who disagree with another's preferences in color, food, music, etc. don't usually use this as a basis for considering the other person bad, evil, immoral, or less deserving of respect. It is seen simply as an example of how people are different. Even if I have no liking for red, I would consider it perfectly acceptable for someone else to like it. The analogous position regarding gays would be, "I have no interest in gay relationships/activities, but it's fine for those who do." Unfortunately, attitudes toward gays by those who are not can be much more intolerant.
 

Engineer

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This is a common misconception: the term doesn't necessarily imply a fear of homosexuals or homosexuality, and can (lexically) mean an irrational hatred, etc.:

"irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals" (source)

"unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals and homosexuality." (source)

"1. Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men." (source)

"an extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people." (source)

Well, thanks for finding all those sources to prove my point, my friend. All of those definitions say "fear of" or "aversion to" which is, boiled down to it... fear. My point still stands. Not everyone who dislikes or disapproves homosexual behavior is a homophobe.
 

Ivy

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They say "fear of OR aversion to," and I don't think you could argue that people described as homophobic don't have an aversion to homosexuality. They don't also have to be afraid of it.
 

Jaguar

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May 5, 2007
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ho·mo·pho·bi·a
n.
1. Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
2. Behavior based on such a feeling.
 
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