Naturalist Vs Creationist

[gromit]

Oh I meant 'we' as in humankind. Like in the general sense. Were we created or did we evolve? I don't know, and I don't know that it reeeeeally matters that much actually.

 

[Nicodemus]

Oh I meant 'we' as in humankind. Like in the general sense. Were we created or did we evolve? I don't know, and I don't know that it reeeeeally matters that much actually.

When you are asked whether the president of the United States of America is a man or a woman, why do you think it safe to answer that it is a man? If you apply the principle that lies in your answer to the above question, it becomes much easier to decide between evolution and creation.

 

[Qlip]

When you are asked whether the president of the United States of America is a man or a woman, why do you think it safe to answer that it is a man? If you apply the principle that lies in your answer to the above question, it becomes much easier to decide between evolution and creation.

Humanity has believed in creation for so long precisely because it's so easy to believe. Evolution without any kind of directing influence takes a much less safe leap, if the subject happens to be important to you.

 

[Nicodemus]

The principle is not 'because it is easy to believe'.

 

[Qlip]

The principle is not 'because it is easy to believe'.

You were appealing to common sense which relies on making coarse judgements on accepted fact. Evolution is the type of thing that can't really be understood this way.

 

[Nicodemus]

You were appealing to common sense [...].

No.

 

[entropie]

Creationism says that God created life on Earth while Evolutionism says the man evolved from the monkey (correct me if I'm wrong).

You are wrong, but I lack the energy to correct that huge wrongdom over the Ocean

 

[ICUP]

. Were we created or did we evolve? I don't know, and I don't know that it reeeeeally matters that much actually.

Pretty much what I think....
Although I lie on the side of evolution. I can't prove either, unfortunately, but even if I could, Idk that it would make a difference anyway.

I could stand to study it to the point where I felt comfortable with the topic and my understanding of it. I really don't. However, my priorities at the time lie in a different place.

 

[entropie]

Intresting would be the underlying psychological attitude behind this two things. To me for example its naturally to deem evolution as the better choice cause it makes more sense to me judged from a level of probability. I find it even ridicoulus to assume that a God had created me thats so not in tune with every sort of thinking I acquired over the years that I even under the stricest torture would still think its ridicoulus.

From my point of few its even ridicoulus to think about the possibility that creationism was a real alternative and I know that in the place I live the thinking of mine is shared by many others. I wonder why that is so different. I'd call my thinking as being prone to realism, while I'd call american thinking as being prone to idealism. it's not that anyone is better, they both have their problematic sides, but even with an open mind and a reflective self I couldnt ever deem the possibility of Creationism to be true. Its gigantically far out for me

 

[Qlip]

Intresting would be the underlying psychological attitude behind this two things. To me for example its naturally to deem evolution as the better choice cause it makes more sense to me judged from a level of probability. I find it even ridicoulus to assume that a God had created me thats so not in tune with every sort of thinking I acquired over the years that I even under the stricest torture would still think its ridicoulus.

From my point of few its even ridicoulus to think about the possibility that creationism was a real alternative and I know that in the place I live the thinking of mine is shared by many others. I wonder why that is so different. I'd call my thinking as being prone to realism, while I'd call american thinking as being prone to idealism. it's not that anyone is better, they both have their problematic sides, but even with an open mind and a reflective self I couldnt ever deem the possibility of Creationism to be true. Its gigantically far out for me

I don't mind talking about this subject till the cows come home, I don't really have a personal stake. But what I highlighted is basically what it boils down to. I'm not going to say the Christian Fundamentalists have a scientific case for creation, but they have a reason to believe it, and it doesn't really have anything to do with the science. So if you meet them on a logical and scientific basis, you're missing the point. From their point of view, and from their peer group, evolution is absolutely ridiculous.

The reason I'm pointing this out, is because ultimately understanding is what is important to me. What I often see is athiests claim that religious viewpoints are stupid an nonsensical, which athiests can define for themselves, but for the same reasons that we exist from an evolutionary standpoint, religious beliefs are evidentally useful. The usefulness is what we need to know. And athiest often don't care any more than just get really angry at the subject and post a flame on the internet, than to understand why religion exists.

My frustration extends also to Fundamentalists, but I get extra frustrated with athiests because they claim to be the more enlightened and rational of the lot.

 

[entropie]

I don't mind talking about this subject till the cows come home, I don't really have a personal stake. But what I highlighted is basically what it boils down to. I'm not going to say the Christian Fundamentalists have a scientific case for creation, but they have a reason to believe it, and it doesn't really have anything to do with the science. So if you meet them on a logical and scientific basis, you're missing the point. From their point of view, and from their peer group, evolution is absolutely ridiculous.

The reason I'm pointing this out, is because ultimately understanding is what is important to me. What I often see is athiests claim that religious viewpoints are stupid an nonsensical, which athiests can define for themselves, but for the same reasons that we exist from an evolutionary standpoint, religious beliefs are evidentally useful. The usefulness is what we need to know. And athiest often don't care any more than just get really angry at the subject and post a flame on the internet, than to understand why religion exists.

My frustration extends also to Fundamentalists, but I get extra frustrated with athiests because they claim to be the more enlightened and rational of the lot.

Yea, I like your viewpoint a lot, I have been basically trieing to follow it for 4 years on this forum. You on the one hand have this cold rational types, who dont accept your opinion if it doesnt make sense. Like back then in the thread when I tried to explain that I wouldnt lay out an emergency plan for still being attractive in case my partner leaves me, cause when I am in love with someone such thoughts just dont honestly cross your mind. But he didnt believe me, to him it was rational that every rational man thinks like that, he couldnt accept that there could be people who think differently.

I myself respect religion a lot, when I was young and in great dispair I even had chats with God myself. I have grown up with many muslims friends, somehow the Turks like me and I like them, they often have from my PoV a very archaic worldview that always ends with a belief that God will help them if all things go wrong. And I always wanted to protect them from misbeliefing in an entity which doesnt exist, but I never understood that it isnt about if the entity really exists, its about believing, belief that gives you superhuman powers.

I have come a long way and I really want to understand creationism; my knowledge of american culture is still to limited to get the answers I need, but I am not thinking any less of them. Its just that always I hear someone saying creationism is true, I feel like I have to rescue him and thats my education, which I surely wiull never get rid of in my life.

I am convinced that when I come to a point in my life when I for the first time will loose the control I have about my life, because of circumstances I cant humanly influence; then I'll have a realisation how belief and hope can feel. I will never belief in creationism or in the christian religion but I am convinced that I'll learn with age what it means or how it feels like to believe.

 

[Qlip]

...

I am convinced that when I come to a point in my life when I for the first time will loose the control I have about my life, because of circumstances I cant humanly influence; then I'll have a realisation how belief and hope can feel. I will never belief in creationism or in the christian religion but I am convinced that I'll learn with age what it means or how it feels like to believe.

I actually believe that you, and we all believe in something in the same way that the Religious do, although it may not be as grandiose. The actual beliefs vary, but they all have to do with keeping our egos (in the psychological sense, not the pajorative) healthy. I don't think a lot of religious people really know the full extent of what belief is, because most of them have never made a concious choice to believe or know the alternative.

 

[Mal12345]

I belive that both of the ideologies go hand in hand.

Creationism says that God created life on Earth while Evolutionism says the man evolved from the monkey (correct me if I'm wrong).

Ok. Evolution says that men and apes evolved from a common ancestor.

I think thing happened at the same time. While Adam and Eve were happy in Heaven, here on Earth that specie of monkey evolved. When God expulsed Adam and Eve the first homo sapiens appeared on Earth. So we can say that Adam and Eve were the first homo sapiens.