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Is it rape if...

Patches

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I'm also going to agree with Magic Poriferan's post. His thoughts mirror mine.


How about we all just get consent and stuff. Why approach a 'fuzzy line' about whether it's rape or not? Lets just all have sex when there is clear consent.
 

Speed Gavroche

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Agreed. How on earth is someone saying "No" or "Stop" NOT considered rape if you continue?


I think it's not a rape at this point if you simply realease the puree, and then stop.
 

Lark

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I'm also going to agree with Magic Poriferan's post. His thoughts mirror mine.


How about we all just get consent and stuff. Why approach a 'fuzzy line' about whether it's rape or not? Lets just all have sex when there is clear consent.

I would agree and, to be honest, how desperate would you have to be to think otherwise, that you'll try and get "it" any which way. Like I said before this is a sort of consequence of the way in which sex is conceived or conceptualised, like any other commodity.
 

Ingrid in grids

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I only take 7 and 8 to classify as rape. 3 could also potentially be rape, though not enough information is given. If the younger participant is very clearly a child, then yes I would call rape.
 

Randomnity

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some of them are clearly rape, all of them are douchebaggy (well, depending wtf "controversial age" means....if it's 18, fine, if it's 12 not so fine)

do you want to know if they should be illegal, or if they're just immoral? I'd say all of those are immoral, although some of them would be tricky to put into legal words, and many are already legal rape (although coercion is a fuzzy legal area).

I think statutory "rape" should be called something else though, with the exception of children who are actually too young to consent at all. I don't consider coercion to be rape, but it is pretty slimy.
 

MacGuffin

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How safe is it to participate in rape fantasies? Isn't the biggest burden on the "rapist" to trust the "rapee"?
 

Fluffywolf

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All sex is rape!

If they consent, it's their hormones telling them to consent!

Unless they want a baby, then it's not rape. All sex is rape except if it is to consentually impregnate.

True story.
 

iwakar

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would these hypothetical situations be considered rape?

1) you hypnotize someone into having sex with you
2) you get someone drunk so that you can manipulate them to have sex with you
3) you have sex with someone controversially younger than you, but they consent
4) you manipulate someone into having sex with you when you know they'll regret it later.
5) you threaten to withdraw support for an individual if they don't have sex with you (not support that they need, like a job, money for living expenses or healthcare, but some other type of support that they can survive without)
6) you threaten to withdraw support that the individual does need (such as those listed above)
7) you make your spouse have sex with you after they have been witholding it from you
8) someone has consented to have sex with you. you're in the middle of things and they say "stop!" and you don't

What prompted you to start this thread?
 

Viridian

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How about we all just get consent and stuff. Why approach a 'fuzzy line' about whether it's rape or not? Lets just all have sex when there is clear consent.

I'm no expert, but isn't consent sometimes implied? Or do you always ask, in no uncertain terms, if you can engage in intercourse with your spouse? I've read something about that recently... :thinking:
 

Patches

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I'm no expert, but isn't consent sometimes implied? Or do you always ask, in no uncertain terms, if you can engage in intercourse with your spouse? I've read something about that recently... :thinking:

Yes, if it's a spouse and such, it is implied. Those are pretty clear-cut situations. I'm referring to Elfboy's scenarios. If it's a fuzzy line like that, or even remotely shady... why can't you just NOT fuck someone under those circumstances? Just wait for a situation in which the other person is very clearly into it, without needing to be manipulated, coerced, etc.
 

Viridian

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Yes, if it's a spouse and such, it is implied. Those are pretty clear-cut situations. I'm referring to Elfboy's scenarios. If it's a fuzzy line like that, or even remotely shady... why can't you just NOT fuck someone under those circumstances? Just wait for a situation in which the other person is very clearly into it, without needing to be manipulated, coerced, etc.

I understand... I think he was just pondering definitions, since this is the Philosophy subforum and not the Relationships one.
 

Red Herring

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would these hypothetical situations be considered rape?

1) you hypnotize someone into having sex with you

As others have said, it doesn't work that way. If it did, yes. Also, of course, a doctor raping a patient while that peron is under the influence of an anaesthetic, etc.

2) you get someone drunk so that you can manipulate them to have sex with you

Not a gentleman move but as long as you didn't slip anything into their drink and they drank voluntarily, No

3) you have sex with someone controversially younger than you, but they consent

What the hell does controversially younger mean? If the other person is too young and immature to really consent or there is a strong power imbalance, it's at least a grey zone. Maturity varies, but there is a reason for the existence of statutory rape. One could discuss at which precise age to draw the line, but that's difficult.
4) you manipulate someone into having sex with you when you know they'll regret it later.

Nope. Asshole move but not rape.

5) you threaten to withdraw support for an individual if they don't have sex with you (not support that they need, like a job, money for living expenses or healthcare, but some other type of support that they can survive without)

No

6) you threaten to withdraw support that the individual does need (such as those listed above)

Yes. Well or at least extorsion. Punishable either way and rightly so.
7) you make your spouse have sex with you after they have been witholding it from you

Hell yeah. What is this, the 19th century???

8) someone has consented to have sex with you. you're in the middle of things and they say "stop!" and you don't

Yes. Should be obvious. Not a nice situation and a good reason to know what you are doing before you do it, but definitely yes.


I also share Lark's suspicion about the motivation of threads like this.
 

swordpath

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If it's not completely consensual, then it's rape. That easy.
 

Fluffywolf

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If it's not completely consensual, then it's rape. That easy.

What if there is implied spoken consent, but an implicative unspoken unconsent?

I mean, I have to agree with Jock that there are possible intricities beyond that of the normal spectrum that have to be taken into consideration.

Jock's post also reminds me of something that is apparantly common but everytime I hear of it it infuriates me.

Suppose guy is depressed, girl attempts to comfort, but doesn't help. Guy says, if you don't have sex with me I will kill myself. Girl agrees, they have sex. Personally, I could kill the guy, but is it rape? I mean, the girl can still walk away, guy kills himself, everyone gets the better of it! But she doesn't, so in a sense, it is consential. But there is an implication! Rape or not, that is the question.
 

swordpath

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That's manipulated compliance and doesn't fall under the category of "completely consensual" that I referred to.
 

swordpath

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However, legally, I don't know how they would look at a scenario such as that. Rape cases are hard to prove. If that scenario happened as you told, but then said female decided to cry rape to law enforcement after the fact... Well, I just don't know. I'm pretty sure that since she technically gave consent, the guy would be in the clear (regardless of the fact that her consent was out of pity/being manipulated). However, these things happening are common. Especially in the setting where booze is present. People will do things, maybe in a blacked out state of inebriation and appear to be fully "on board" with the moment, but then somehow over the next day or two, it turns into someone feeling like they've taken advantage of.
 

Elfboy

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However, legally, I don't know how they would look at a scenario such as that. Rape cases are hard to prove. If that scenario happened as you told, but then said female decided to cry rape to law enforcement after the fact... Well, I just don't know. I'm pretty sure that since she technically gave consent, the guy would be in the clear (regardless of the fact that her consent was out of pity/being manipulated). However, these things happening are common. Especially in the setting where booze is present. People will do things, maybe in a blacked out state of inebriation and appear to be fully "on board" with the moment, but then somehow over the next day or two, it turns into someone feeling like they've taken advantage of.

it's true, that's what's so terrible about sex crimes.
1) they're obviously traumatic for the victim
2) they're hard to prove, so a lot of people get away
3) lots of them are misunderstandings, so lots of innocent people end up in jail
 
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