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Difficulty Finding a Religion to Belong To

CuriousFeeling

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Disclaimer: This will be a peaceful thread. No debates about which religion is better than the other, please. I am seeking advice.

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Lately, I have been experiencing a spiritual rebirth. For a couple years, throughout my college experience and up through my early 20s I kind of lost faith in religion in general because I disliked the tension between religions (especially after seeing religious wars and such with terrorism) and how I felt that the rules for each religion didn't quite ring home for me. Furthermore, I went through kind of an existential crisis... contemplating the existence of the afterlife, and with a background in science, I had thought that basically what happened to us when we die is that our bodies just sit there and decompose, and what keeps our spirits alive is in the hearts and minds of our relatives. The trouble is, even though this may be what reality is... something deep seated in my heart wants to be spiritual. Previously I had considered myself to be a free-spirited liberal Christian... I didn't really go to church or anything, but I still believed in God and had more of a personal connection with Him as a spiritual guide. Even when I was experiencing an existential crisis in my early 20s, I still had moments where I would pray to God... usually in times of spiritual crisis.

The thing is, despite being an agnostic, I really do wish to have some sort of spiritual element in my life. At this moment, I feel a great state of cognitive dissonance... as a scientist I should believe in what is observable facts... but it gives my heart great pain to think that once my life ends, there won't be a spiritual home for me to return to, nor will the same thing be the case for any relatives that have passed on.

The thing is, I want to believe in a higher being, something greater than me. I suppose in a sense I am monotheistic. I want to believe in Heaven. The thing is, I want to belong with a group of believers that are tolerant towards others with differing spiritual views, accepting of science and the theory of evolution, allow women to make their own decisions about reproduction, allow women to be spiritual leaders, more accepting of the LGBT community, value compassion towards others and that human suffering is more of a test of faith and is caused by humanity on its own. I also feel a deep spiritual connection between other people and me... as well as a deep connection between myself and the universe and nature. I suppose I have a liberal view towards religions, because they all explain the same type of thing, just in a different perspective. This can get a bit brain boggling, especially when you see things from different angles.

Which religion(s) would you suggest?

Remember, please keep this peaceful. :)
 

Thalassa

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Taoism.

Taoism recognizes a benevolent energy, flow and natural way of the universe, but not a god per se. It's more of a nature based philosophy, but no worshiping trees or believing in woodland elves, nothing like that.

Reflecting on Taoist principles really helps me. There is no place you have to sign up and follow arbitrary social rules. The three jewels of Taoism are love/simplicity/modesty which can also be called compassion/economy/humility. It already aligns with what I believe is moral, but helps me to progress beyond simply what I think is moral into being more reflective about prescribing to the modern tendency to "over-logic" or to devalue nature or devalue right brained thinking. Acceptance of your individual gifts is important in Taoism, as is even looking at your flaws as things that could potentially be used as a strength if applied in the right manner or specific situation.

I only suggest what works for me, it may not work for you.
 

Mad Hatter

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If you feel that religion doesn't answer your questions, you could always try philosophy :)
Existentialism came almost as a revelation to me.
 

CuriousFeeling

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At Marmie:

Could experiment with that and see how it works for me. I've been attracted to Eastern spirituality, so it sounds appealing.

At MadHatter:

Philosophy is something I am very much interested in. Existentialism especially, as well as classical philosophy and Utilitarianism. Thanks for the suggestion. :)
 

Lark

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Interesting, there are some things which correspond to my own experiences and others that dont.

There are rationalistic creedos which I could suggest you research and which I believe could meet your needs, like deism for instance, although I think that ultimately you have to consider if its all about your needs and meeting those, its not uncommon to hear about people experiencing things and then going in search of God, what's not as often thought about is the reality that God is in search of man and sometimes it should be about God's needs and not your own. Now I'll clarify. I dont by that believe that you need to become neurotic or submissive to earthly authorities or others, those are different questions perhaps when it comes to spirituality.

Just that when I consider many of the posts or even books about spiritual impulses which I have they seem to be aimed at people who are operating as consumers in a marketplace or have taken their consciousness from that and religion isnt exactly like that. Or at least that's what I think.

About the afterlife, what is known? Who is to say? To be honest this bothers me from time to time but most of the time it doesnt, if the reality and only reality is the one which you mentioned of dying and nothingness and your only survival is as a memory for others then so be it, its not very comforting but it must be the will of God if it is the case. I dont believe that that is the case though. I just dont believe many of the artistic or speculative imaginings of what heaven or hell are like.

About being part of a community of believers, I'm used to people disagreeing with me, whatever it is that is being discussed and even when I had relative resonance I know we're still thinking diferently, purely by virtue of being individuals, and you know what? I think that's alright. I suppose this is what makes me different from followers of Islam or others who approximate similar goals in their faith. I dont think that shared sentiment is as important or possible.

The values of the age which you've described as liberal values, well, I'd suggest that you think about them, sometimes friends and foes of religion alike have identified religion as the stalwart opponent of what you've mentioned but I think its much more nuanced and complex than all that. I'd also suggest Rob Bell to you, he has some good audiobooks and youtube clips introducing them and I suspect would convey similar values to your own.
 

Lark

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At Marmie:

Could experiment with that and see how it works for me. I've been attracted to Eastern spirituality, so it sounds appealing.

At MadHatter:

Philosophy is something I am very much interested in. Existentialism especially, as well as classical philosophy and Utilitarianism. Thanks for the suggestion. :)

I would beware being attracted to eastern metaphysics only because of the novelty, some of it appears great but when you consider it in another context you will see it differently, I was at a time highly enamoured with zen buddhism, now it interests me but I consider things very differently (sometimes seperating Zen from Buddhism, sometimes considering them the same). The promises of Zen, Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism have all proven false dawns to me, although I still put some store in Confucian styles of thinking.

Philosophy likewise, it can be really great, however much of it, especially existentialism, can be very self-centred, unconsciously objectivist even. There are a few exceptions but they can be depressing when they dont shrink from conveying how small a thing like individual sovereignty, for instance, is really in actuality.
 

Thalassa

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I would beware being attracted to eastern metaphysics only because of the novelty, some of it appears great but when you consider it in another context you will see it differently, I was at a time highly enamoured with zen buddhism, now it interests me but I consider things very differently (sometimes seperating Zen from Buddhism, sometimes considering them the same). The promises of Zen, Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism have all proven false dawns to me, although I still put some store in Confucian styles of thinking.

Philosophy likewise, it can be really great, however much of it, especially existentialism, can be very self-centred, unconsciously objectivist even. There are a few exceptions but they can be depressing when they dont shrink from conveying how small a thing like individual sovereignty, for instance, is really in actuality.

You know Christianity is an Eastern religion, right?

Don't be warning her against any philosophy that isn't "your one true faith." That's just wrong.
 

Mad Hatter

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I would beware being attracted to eastern metaphysics only because of the novelty, some of it appears great but when you consider it in another context you will see it differently, I was at a time highly enamoured with zen buddhism, now it interests me but I consider things very differently (sometimes seperating Zen from Buddhism, sometimes considering them the same). The promises of Zen, Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism have all proven false dawns to me, although I still put some store in Confucian styles of thinking.

Agreed. I think that to us, Eastern Asian religions / philosophy will probably never be the same to us as it is to people who come from a background that has been formed for ages by these ways of looking at the world - just like Western civilization has been deeply formed by Christianity, whether you are Christian or not. I'm really skeptical about 'pick and choose', like if you don't like something about a certain religion, just move on to another - if I got you, just for the 'novelty' of it, which would mean that you didn't care about the actual religion.

Philosophy likewise, it can be really great, however much of it, especially existentialism, can be very self-centred, unconsciously objectivist even. There are a few exceptions but they can be depressing when they dont shrink from conveying how small a thing like individual sovereignty, for instance, is really in actuality.

At the same time, I found it to be very liberating :)
Maybe you could interpret existentialism in a way that nothing 'really matters', and that it's basically a philosophy that teaches you not to care, but I would say that it's only the beginning of the process. To me, it was more like tearing something down so you could build it up from scratch.
 

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The thing is, despite being an agnostic, I really do wish to have some sort of spiritual element in my life. At this moment, I feel a great state of cognitive dissonance... as a scientist I should believe in what is observable facts... but it gives my heart great pain to think that once my life ends, there won't be a spiritual home for me to return to, nor will the same thing be the case for any relatives that have passed on.

Since you seem to understand that afterlife is a vain quest, and that faith is epistemologically flawed from the very beginning, why don't you try to accept what you really know?
Do you think that atheism and science ultimately contradicts your liberal values?
Why?
Why do you seem so afraid to reach the only possible logical conclusion, and accept what it means, what it implies?

If there is no afterlife, then this life is everything we have. So you must cherish it and cherish other lives too (at least if you accept Kant's categorical imperative).



The thing is, I want to believe in a higher being, something greater than me.

Why?

I want to believe in Heaven.

Do you really think such belief could deeply improve your life?

Why not trying to improve this world first?
 
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Agreed. I think that to us, Eastern Asian religions / philosophy will probably never be the same to us as it is to people who come from a background that has been formed for ages by these ways of looking at the world - just like Western civilization has been deeply formed by Christianity, whether you are Christian or not. I'm really skeptical about 'pick and choose', like if you don't like something about a certain religion, just move on to another - if I got you, just for the 'novelty' of it, which would mean that you didn't care about the actual religion.
That's the common problem, Westerners tend to reimagine Eastern religions into whatever they want it to mean, rather than actually seek to understand what they actually teach. I notice this often in Western Buddhism, to give probably the most famous example. The kicker is that much of the spiritual teachings of the East parallels those of the West, and it's always been common advice within Eastern traditions to seek spiritual truth in the tradition one is most familar with. Much of the "exotic" elements people look for in Eastern traditions can be found in Christianity.
 

Scott N Denver

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Buddhism is very popular with a lot of people, and has lots of elements that people can either focus on or ignore. I think its the easiest eastern religion to jump to. If your feeling very ?colorful? you could try looking into various types of Hinduism. Both of those two choices should allow you to join groups of like-minded. In my mind Taoism is much more selective in both directions ie hit or miss in both directions.

How about unitarian universalism, it seems to best fit what you describe for yourself
 

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That's the common problem, Westerners tend to reimagine Eastern religions into whatever they want it to mean, rather than actually seek to understand what they actually teach. I notice this often in Western Buddhism, to give probably the most famous example. The kicker is that much of the spiritual teachings of the East parallels those of the West, and it's always been common advice within Eastern traditions to seek spiritual truth in the tradition one is most familar with. .

Agreed.

Much of the "exotic" elements people look for in Eastern traditions can be found in Christianity.

Not Agreed.

On the contrary, I tend to think that if these "exotic religions" have some success now, it's because many people naively think that they could resolve the ever-lasting conflict between Western humanistic values and the harsh reality and the deep hypocrisy of Western monotheisms. They hope to find a religion that would not so blatantly contradict their current liberal values like Christianity does. They hope to find a sense of belonging they have lost elsewhere, however tiny and unrealistic it may look.

Unfortunately for them, I fear it's a vain quest, because these "Western humanistic values" are in fact based on the acquired knowledge of the Age of Enlightenment and hence, on rationalism (rather than faith).
 

Lark

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Agreed. I think that to us, Eastern Asian religions / philosophy will probably never be the same to us as it is to people who come from a background that has been formed for ages by these ways of looking at the world - just like Western civilization has been deeply formed by Christianity, whether you are Christian or not. I'm really skeptical about 'pick and choose', like if you don't like something about a certain religion, just move on to another - if I got you, just for the 'novelty' of it, which would mean that you didn't care about the actual religion.

At the same time, I found it to be very liberating :)
Maybe you could interpret existentialism in a way that nothing 'really matters', and that it's basically a philosophy that teaches you not to care, but I would say that it's only the beginning of the process. To me, it was more like tearing something down so you could build it up from scratch.

I definitely have the same views as you with regard to spiritual shopping, now, that's not to say that I wouldnt consider aspects of different world religions and possibly integrate some of them but its not the same as a pair of trainers, in which you may follow or refuse to follow the latests tastes and fashions or change them at will.

Essentially I believe that in religion or anything else I'm an integrative thinker and I also reflect upon the reality that I'm an individual, whatever faith I do practice and whatever way I practice it in word or deed in some way it will be or have become "my" faith and be unique from its "shared" aspect with others. Depending on your own values that could be a terrible or a brilliant thing, I just acknowledge it as an objective reality, as a result I'm not spent trying to conform perfectly to others or demanding they conform perfectly to me and my expectations.

Existentialism I found interesting and engaging for a while but I've abandoned it now, I think it was a response to the world wars and other developments which had a lot of people experiencing crisis, doubt, anomie and we live in a different time to that and its important to acknowledge that. Context is pretty important in ideas. So I can understand those writers or the writers who've been adopted by existentialists as existentialists mattering in an age were institutions and ideologies external to the self were unreliable or found wanting but I'm not sure that's the reality or the time or should be.

I dont think existentialism suggests why care? And nothing matters, I think instead it suggests that only the self matters, only the self is assured, its a little like Descartes "I think, therefore I am" launched by the radical doubts created by discoveries like refraction and that "does mine eyes deceive me?" was more common than had been thought. To a point those are interesting even enlivening concepts but they centre too much on the self and do not consider the external or eternal besides the self.

If a tree falls in the forest does it make any noise if there is no one there to hear it? Its not really a mind blowing or mind silencing koan considered from simple point of fact and that has eluded a lot of philosophy is all I'm saying. Sciences too.
 
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Concerning Existentialism, there are religious variations of the concept. The first recognized Existentialist, Kierkegaard, was deeply religious.
 

Lark

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That's the common problem, Westerners tend to reimagine Eastern religions into whatever they want it to mean, rather than actually seek to understand what they actually teach. I notice this often in Western Buddhism, to give probably the most famous example. The kicker is that much of the spiritual teachings of the East parallels those of the West, and it's always been common advice within Eastern traditions to seek spiritual truth in the tradition one is most familar with. Much of the "exotic" elements people look for in Eastern traditions can be found in Christianity.

That's for sure.

I first realised this when considering the extent to which martial arts were synonymous with eastern fighting styles and schools of thinking, often with their own attendent philosophies, although this was in some ways a result of the success with which Bruce Lee and others "sold themselves" and their cultural background in the west, I personally began to think about whether there had been any different schools or books or traditions in the west when the museams had armour and weapons as various as those which appeared associated with samauri or ninjas which were popular.

I found the society for the study of rennaisance martial arts and other similar tendencies (I was simultaneously surprised and disappointed with how most of them introduced themselves or contained somewhere within their PR material apologetics along the lines of "we're not racist..." simply because they were trying to revive western traditions), it was really clear to me the extent to which years of knowledge had been wasted and ignored. This is all said without any sort of nationalist identity or cultural chauvinism driving it. Consumerism could result in this all being revisited eventually, perhaps if China or Japan became more hegemonic and the west tried to go and market itself to them.

My point was, although I meandered of it a bit, that there were equivalents of the martial arts in the west, the same goes for religion, there are parallels, corollaries and equivalents, meditation and monasticism are examples.

Buddhism in the west is often really misunderstood, I've studied it a lot and I find most of the people who are fans in the west are acquainted with it as much as it has featured in the simpsons or newstands or mind, body and spirit sections. Most of them are only seeking a religious mirror for their political or cultural values, often when these are challenged by hard nosed and nasty varieties of religosity too.
 

Lark

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Concerning Existentialism, there are religious variations of the concept. The first recognized Existentialist, Kierkegaard, was deeply religious.

I like Kierkegaard, in so far as I understand him, and its good that existentialists have popularised his material but I'm not sure he would have described himself as an existentialist, what do you think?
 
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Sniffles

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I like Kierkegaard, in so far as I understand him, and its good that existentialists have popularised his material but I'm not sure he would have described himself as an existentialist, what do you think?

Probably not, but then again many Existentialists rejected the label. Gabriel Marcel first coined the term Existentialist but preferred the label "Neo-Socratic" or "Reflective Empiricist". Marcel btw was Catholic. :wink:
 

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I would just suggest finding a religion that you think suits you but don't become a radical. I tell people I'm an unconventional Christian... I don't care what others believe in, if you are happy than why should I tell you to believe in something other than what you do now? But then again I'm also neutral towards gay marriage and pro choice... And I believe being a homosexual is no worse than stealing a loaf of bread in Gods eyes. I'm sure I piss off a lot of the traditionalists.... But my thing is to treat others how you want to be treated. Jesus wasn't a stuck up prick who only attended nice church gatherings in the upper class part of town... he hung out with the whores and the drug heads.
 

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have you tried looking into unitarian universalism? they welcome people of all religions and emphasize personal choice and individual spiritual growth. i attend uu services when the mood strikes me. :)

http://www.uua.org/beliefs/6798.shtml
 
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