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Are people inherently good or bad?

miss fortune

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for a couple of quotes from the book Good Omens, to cover the topic :)

"It may help to understand human affairs to be clear that most of the great triumphs and tragedies of history are caused, not by people being fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, but by people being fundamentally people."

"Just when you'd think they were more malignant than ever Hell could be, they could occasionally show more grace than Heaven ever dreamed of. Often the same individual was involved. It was this freewill thing, of course. It was a bugger"
 

Giggly

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After thinking about this, I mostly think people lean towards the good side. They're mostly good but are flawed and will be bad sometimes.
 

Thalassa

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After thinking about this, I mostly think people lean towards the good side. They're mostly good but are flawed and will be bad sometimes.

Most people act "bad" because something is wrong: they are sick, in pain, hungry, homeless, living in poverty, mentally ill, angry, stressed out, or don't have love in their life.

People whose physical, emotional, mental, and relationship needs are met are usually kinder, more rational, and easier to get along with than others.

You do have that small percentage of the population who are just selfish pieces of fuck for no good reason, but many times that's because they're the opposite: spoiled.

People who are too spoiled or too needy are usually the most horrid people. I know I'm a real bitch when I'm frightened or under stress, but if my life is going normally and I have everything I need (including love) I tend to be much more generous, others-centered, and calm.

People who have never known love are sometimes total shitheads to other people even if all of their financial needs are met. Like people who have everything money can buy but never knew real love, understanding, or intimacy can be real tools.

I think the bottom line is that there are usually reasons why people do what they do, and only a small percentage of people who are just bad to be bad because they're truly that narcissistic or selfish.
 

Giggly

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People are inherently weak and boring.

Weak... I would agree with that for some people, but what is more interesting to you than people? I am curious.

Most people act "bad" because something is wrong: they are sick, in pain, hungry, homeless, living in poverty, mentally ill, angry, stressed out, or don't have love in their life.

People whose physical, emotional, mental, and relationship needs are met are usually kinder, more rational, and easier to get along with than others.

You do have that small percentage of the population who are just selfish pieces of fuck for no good reason, but many times that's because they're the opposite: spoiled.

People who are too spoiled or too needy are usually the most horrid people. I know I'm a real bitch when I'm frightened or under stress, but if my life is going normally and I have everything I need (including love) I tend to be much more generous, others-centered, and calm.

People who have never known love are sometimes total shitheads to other people even if all of their financial needs are met. Like people who have everything money can buy but never knew real love, understanding, or intimacy can be real tools.

I think the bottom line is that there are usually reasons why people do what they do, and only a small percentage of people who are just bad to be bad because they're truly that narcissistic or selfish.

Yes, I agree with this.
 

Beargryllz

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Actions can be 'good' or 'bad', but people are just people.

Besides, what kind of knowledge would we gather if we could actually determine if somebody is 'good' or 'bad'? What would be the consequences of that? The person would still be the same, just that it would come with a label.

Past actions can be used to predict future behavior. This is a fundamental advantage that comes with having knowledge about anything capable of performing an action. The problem is that the individual's actions may not align with the predicted behavior. And the past actions do not have to be dependent on the individual at all. You could say that a person has an attribute, but how would you find the attribute for goodness? You can say that a person is (independently of that person's actions) something, and then his or her actions can unfold from there. People are water-dependent, so they drink water. They don't have to, but they almost always do. Goodness is probably more likely a result of a person being at a certain place, in a certain time, with certain resources, certain motivations, and (by chance?) taking primarily actions that fall consistently within the boundaries of a theoretical universal morality. I just don't think it's worth the effort to try and keep track of all that. I predict that you won't find any one variable that absolutely determines that a person will be "good", and you won't find "evil" either.
 
T

ThatGirl

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I believe every single person on the face of this planet is capable of inconceivable good and bad. Most people utilize their talents somewhere in the median, preferring one side only slightly more than the other. Most of which is contingent of circumstance.


*I tried to sound smrt, did it work?
 

Litvyak

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Weak... I would agree with that for some people, but what is more interesting to you than people? I am curious.

Masses of people, societies, institutions, group dynamics.
Imaginary worlds, other dimensions, time, crossroads...
Laws of science, uninhabited space.

Pretty much everything, I guess.
 

Giggly

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I believe every single person on the face of this planet is capable of inconceivable good and bad. Most people utilize their talents somewhere in the median, preferring one side only slightly more than the other. Most of which is contingent of circumstance.


*I tried to sound smrt, did it work?

Sounds reasonable to me.
I am wondering if people who think humans are bad think this way mostly as a defense mechanism.

*Yes.
 

Valiant

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I think most people are inherently good. It is when you bunch people together that they become evil.
This is why I do not generally put much trust in the friendship of a city-person.
That is just a general guideline, but they tend to be more degenerate, immoral, liberal, selfish and untrustworthy.
It's just a matter of environment shaping people, however, and some people always evade being warped by it through sheer strength of character.
They tend to be all the better.
 

Lightyear

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Besides, what kind of knowledge would we gather if we could actually determine if somebody is 'good' or 'bad'? What would be the consequences of that? The person would still be the same, just that it would come with a label.

I think you are overcomplicating things a bit. You need to determine if someone is good or bad to figure out if you can trust this person or should protect yourself by staying away from them. And obviously you need to create some label to talk about negative, destructive behaviour, every pre-schooler will be careful around Bobby if he knows that "Bobby is mean". It's not that deeply philosophical.

I believe every single person on the face of this planet is capable of inconceivable good and bad. Most people utilize their talents somewhere in the median, preferring one side only slightly more than the other. Most of which is contingent of circumstances.

I agree with that, there is an interplay of free will, circumstances, human weakness but also human ability to do good and be selfless.

This is why I do not generally put much trust in the friendship of a city-person.
That is just a general guideline, but they tend to be more degenerate, immoral, liberal, selfish and untrustworthy.
It's just a matter of environment shaping people, however, and some people always evade being warped by it through sheer strength of character.
They tend to be all the better.

Well, I haven't come across discrimination based on if someone is from a small town or a big city. I think you are painting with huge brushstrokes here, firstly each city has countless microcosms (there is a big difference between a posh rich kid, a young professional, a wannabe gangster, an immigrant etc) and secondly when it comes down to it people are individuals anyway, they might surprise you with their actions.

Also what about people from other difficult backgrounds, people who have lived in war zones, had an abusive upbringing, were homeless, worked in a very competetive, harsh environment etc, are you also going to avoid these people because of a bundling of circumstances that MIGHT have shaped their characters to the negative?
 

Synapse

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We are birthed wholly, it is the conditional response created via energy that reinterprets this personalization of good and bad.
 

Valiant

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Well, I haven't come across discrimination based on if someone is from a small town or a big city. I think you are painting with huge brushstrokes here, firstly each city has countless microcosms (there is a big difference between a posh rich kid, a young professional, a wannabe gangster, an immigrant etc) and secondly when it comes down to it people are individuals anyway, they might surprise you with their actions.

Also what about people from other difficult backgrounds, people who have lived in war zones, had an abusive upbringing, were homeless, worked in a very competetive, harsh environment etc, are you also going to avoid these people because of a bundling of circumstances that MIGHT have shaped their characters to the negative?


Anyone can prove themselves worthy of trust through being reliable when times are hard, which is the basis of true friendship for me.
The chances are, however, that most of these people will not respect my boundaries and that I will have to become the less pleasant version of me.
Prejudices exist for a reason. They weed out most shit automatically, so that I will only need to deal with the occasional idiot manually.
Quite generally I avoid anything and anyone that doesn't seem fairly functional.
So, yeah, i'd probably avoid 99% of the people you described above.
Most people do it, they're just hypocrites and feel guilty about it if confronted with it.
 

Xyk

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I'd say morals are almost entirely nurture (rather than nature), with the rare exception of psycopaths/sociopaths who don't feel any empathy. We don't listen to preschoolers for moral advice. If Bobby is acting mean, there's a reason, whether it's because his father is a poor role model, his father wasn't around, his older sibling bullied him, or some combination of things that I can't really get into.
 

rav3n

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Serious response. Good and bad don't exist beyond labels created by religion.

In general, the pattern to most people is self-interest in varying degrees. There's a small percentage on either end of the self-interest spectrum, where most fall somewhere in between. There's also a +/- variance to where people will fall within the spectrum, reliant on mood, life situation and other factors which include your own behaviours.

With all the above in mind, individuals have to maintain their own personal boundaries of what they consider reasonable treatment. If someone exceeds your boundaries, push back. If someone holds you to a bar they can't personally meet, walk away unless you're feeling energetic enough to try to open their eyes (which I wouldn't recommend).

I used to believe that clear communications was enough and learned otherwise. The more you clearly communicate with the ones on the further side of negative on the spectrum, the more they react with self-protection mechanisms. So now, more often than not, I walk away.

To conclude, not everyone is compatible so if you give your trust and caring, be selective of whom you give it to.
 

Matthew_Z

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If we take a step back for a moment and consider the ramifications of, say, moral relativism, we can rather easily get to the conclusion that people are, on average, conformists more than anything. Individuals are generally morally acceptable within their own sociopolitical contexts. Generally.

I'm personally more a fan of the "evil situations, not evil people" hypothesis affirmed by the Nuremberg Defense and the Milgram Experiment.
 

Mole

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Normal, Abnormal and Subnormal

Almost all of our qualities fall on the Bell Curve which means that almost all of us are normal and only a tiny number are abnormal and only a tiny number are subnormal.

So if goodness falls on the Bell Curve, only a tiny number are very good and a corresponding tiny number are very bad.

And so as we look around us we can be reassured that almost everyone we see is normal. Why, even we ourselves are trying to be normal, just like everyone else.
 

Matthew_Z

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Almost all of our qualities fall on the Bell Curve which means that almost all of us are normal and only a tiny number are abnormal and only a tiny number are subnormal.

So if goodness falls on the Bell Curve, only a tiny number are very good and a corresponding tiny number are very bad.

And so as we look around us we can be reassured that almost everyone we see is normal. Why, even we ourselves are trying to be normal, just like everyone else.

If goodness falls on a bell curve, then yes, only a very small number are very good or very bad, but that's relatively speaking. Those extremes only mean that they are much more "good" or "bad" than the general population, not some standard of morality. The idea that people's moral compasses follow a bell curve (hell, go for it if you want) may hold true, but it says nothing about the center of our distribution; it doesn't tell us if "normal" human morality is evil or not.
 
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