The veil of ignorance, or ignorance of the veil?

[rav3n]

I also question how the hijab brings you closer to Allah. Bear in mind, I'm no expert on Islam so please explain.

 

[Sniffles]

It mostly reflects the importance of modesty in religious observance. You see this in Judaism and Christianity too, and for that matter many other religious traditions.

 

[entropie]

I have grown up with turkish woman wearing a hijab in my neighbourhood. See them in supermarkets and everywhere in my daily life. It's pretty normal for me and I respect it, if they really want to do it.

My inner self tho finds it awful, like my innerself finds everything awful ny kind of religion has come up with

 

[rav3n]

It mostly reflects the importance of modesty in religious observance. You see this in Judaism and Christianity too, and for that matter many other religious traditions.

No offense Peguy but I'd like to hear YWs reasons for wanting to don the hijab. Hopefully she can provide some rational reasons for believing that women must be modest and men not, pertaining to physical cover rather than the ideology of modesty in general which can be addressed in other ways.

 

[Sniffles]

What makes you think modesty only pertains to women?

 

[Stanton Moore]

What makes you think modesty only pertains to women?

Because men aren't required to cover thier faces or bodies for modesty.

 

[entropie]

Because men aren't required to cover thier faces or bodies for modesty.

Tho that would be really nice with some specimen

 

[figsfiggyfigs]

I also question how the hijab brings you closer to Allah. Bear in mind, I'm no expert on Islam so please explain.

Not so strictly, only referring to being more connected with the words of the religion, which in turn makes one feel closer to God.

No offense Peguy but I'd like to hear YWs reasons for wanting to don the hijab. Hopefully she can provide some rational reasons for believing that women must be modest and men not, pertaining to physical cover rather than the ideology of modesty in general which can be addressed in other ways.

Lets take religion out of the equation.

In regards to covering ones hair; It does seem that a females hair is a lot more attractive to a man, than a man's hair is to a female. More men are likely to be found attractive with hair, or a completely bold head, where as, its not the same for females.

 

[Saslou]

In regards to covering ones hair; It does seem that a females hair is a lot more attractive to a man, than a man's hair is to a female. More men are likely to be found attractive with hair, or a completely bold head, where as, its not the same for females.

So could it be argued then that by the female covering her hair, men will not see how attractive she is so not tempted to make moves on her .. I know this is ignorance on my part but then why not get men to stop hitting on women is they are married.

Which then could come full circle to the oppression of women because men can't keep their dicks in their pants.

(it's one of those subjects where i want to speak up but due to faith, i find it a tricky situation as i don't want to offend and also, you shouldn't have to explain your actions)

 

[rav3n]

Not so strictly, only referring to being more connected with the words of my religion, which in turn makes me feel closer to god.

This is a personal experience and one that I'd like to challenge but choose not to, avoiding touching on any reader's sensitivities.

Lets take religion out of the equation.

In regards to covering ones hair; It does seem that a females hair is a lot more attractive to a man, than a man's hair is to a female. More men are likely to be found attractive with hair, or a completely bold head, where as, its not the same for females.

Not sure if this is accurate. Take two men with identical positive traits somewhere between 20 - 40 years old. Now, give one a receding hairline that embraces the crown of his head and the other, a full head of hair. Which one would more women prefer?

 

[figsfiggyfigs]

Jenaphor and others: The veil brings you closer to God because wearing it is less comfortable than not doing so. The more uncomfortable women are in this life, the more we will be rewarded in the afterlife. At least that's how I have interpreted the Qur'an. To put it in Christian terms, the veil is like a chronic ailment received in the Crusades: A symbol of your worship.

 

[entropie]

How would you explain that to a rational enlightend empirical modern thinker ? (who is college libertarian )

 

[Jaguar]

What stance do you have on the hijab? Personally, I've grown up without wearing one, but now I'm in my early twenties and I guess something spritiual is stirring inside of me. As a result I'm very much considering adopting the tradition in order to get closer to God than a woman would be able to without the veil. I'm starting to believe only ignorant people would be against it, and the recent French law prohibiting the veil is absolutely ridiculous..

My stance is: Do what you want. It's your life.

 

[Mole]

The Flag

I think we are foolish to argue for or against the wearing of the hijab, rather we should be arguing about what the hijab represents, for the hijab represents a violent, totalitarian political religion.

It is expanding and teaches hatred of Jews, Dhimmi and infidels.

The hijab is not just a veil, it is a flag. And women are the flagpole. And we should be asking, what does it flag?

 

[Sniffles]

Because men aren't required to cover thier faces or bodies for modesty.

Islam prescribes a more conservative minimum dress code for both men and women. In Islam, both men and women are expected to dress simply, modestly, and with dignity. A man must always be covered in loose and unrevealing clothing from his navel to his knee. This is the absolute minimum covering required. He must never, for example, go out in public wearing a short bathing suit.

http://www.almasjid.com/content/islamic_dress_code

So yeah.....it's not like men get a free pass to dress however they please either. IIRC, men are also required to cover their heads.

 

[Lark]

I agree...too bad its true, at least according to a huge percentage of Muslims (such as 84-85% of the Muslims in Egypt and Jordan!).

I don't particularly care about the hijab in itself, though; it correlates with illiberal interpretations of Islam, but is not directly problematic when worn voluntarily. I care about beliefs, not clothing.

Edit: I think that increasing identification with the hijab/niqab by Western and/or secular Muslim women is much like my affinity for the Confederate battle flag; a means of defiantly expressing cultural identity in the face of prejiduce, and an attempt to 'take back' a cultural symbol while others attempt to define it for me.

I was going to attack your post but the edit provides an interesting context to it.

Still, this isnt Egypt or Jordan its typoC so instead of telling people that their choices are illiberal/sharia or some other synymon for "wrong" or "evil" wouldnt it be a useful opportunity to open a dialogue with some questions? Otherwise what's the point of even posting?

Its a little like Victor's "Got Christianity? Well you're an obviously evil child molestor" threads and posts, what is the point of it even? Its not going to persuade or enlighten anyone as to anything, it is instead the "discussion" equivalent of "come and a have a go if you think you're hard enough".

 

[Lark]

It mostly reflects the importance of modesty in religious observance. You see this in Judaism and Christianity too, and for that matter many other religious traditions.

This is one topic that I'm not even entirely decided upon myself, I've considered seriously that the error is not in being uncovered (not least as it is possible to be clothed and dress sexually enticing and suggestively) but the social context. If you are to consider most of the classical or rennaisance art and sculpture it is all immodest yet I would not consider it indecent or pornographic, would modesty mandate that it all be covered with sheets or destroyed out of hand?

It is a difficult topic because a lot of the time what I consider legitimate arguments or points are perverted, exploited or distorted to serve immoral or deviant ends. Mind you a lot of modern indecency does away beyond nakedness or exposure, there's a lot of ill shit power and violence in the mix too.

 

[Lark]

I have grown up with turkish woman wearing a hijab in my neighbourhood. See them in supermarkets and everywhere in my daily life. It's pretty normal for me and I respect it, if they really want to do it.

My inner self tho finds it awful, like my innerself finds everything awful ny kind of religion has come up with

My inner self wants to beat up your inner self

That's a bit of a gross generalisation. There are secular style statements which are worse than veils, the cradle of filth t-shirt with "Jesus is a C**t" and a masturbating nun for instance, that's all kinds of wrong right there.

 

[Lark]

What makes you think modesty only pertains to women?

Because men are not sexy.

 

[Lark]

How would you explain that to a rational enlightend empirical modern thinker ? (who is college libertarian )

You wouldnt have to because fortunately a "rational, enlightened empirical modern thinker who is college libertarian" is an oxymoron and only exists in fair tales by the witch Ayn Rand.