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  1. #11
    Senor Membrane
    Join Date
    May 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm not trying to take you to task or make a personal attack but this smacks of being an oft repeated "truism" which isnt the result of serious thinking.
    No, it's not really truism for me. Have you noticed that the more firm logical grounding a person has for his belief, the less likely he is to attack people? When a person has no foundation under his belief, he will have to defend the surface layer of his belief very hard, because if that first line of defense is broken, there is nothing solid under it. Person with integrity is someone who has really gone through his belief and sees the logical whole. He has good foundation so he doesn't need to be so aggressive defending it. He knows thoroughly that no one can break his belief, even if they find a few holes on the surface.

    Now, institutions seem to focus on keeping the first line of defense strong, but they don't encourage discussion about the foundations of the belief. Actually quite the opposite. And on top of that, there is the question of power. A person with integrity doesn't seem to be the kind of person who would need power in order to make his belief gain following, since he is so sure he is right, and truth speaks for itself. So, it is unlikely that he will be interested in power. But, the ones who focus on the first line of defense are very interested in power. Maybe I shouldn't have said that all institutions are faulty, but there certainly is a much higher pressure towards that direction. And the more hierarchy the more corrupt it is.

    And to answer the question of how it is possible for a culture to function at all if the institutions are corrupt: There is a balancing force, public approval. People have this collective knowledge and they resist corruption to some degree. Like now, there are people leaving the church because of these recent news. So, the institutions will have to maintain a level of integrity people will approve.

  2. #12
    Senior Member knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011


    I found the more accepting one is of their inherent nature the more at peace they are with themselves. religions dont seem to be prosexuality and that is their inherent problem. abstaining from who they are or their taste for the "flesh" or fruit of anothers looms.
    repressing is never good and sexual abuse is the outcome.

    at the moment im reading over some of satanism and their stance and they seem to be extremely open in the pursuit of pleasure and sex is one of those things. my question though is, is the issue with child molestation and sexual abuse as rampant with them then it is with the christians, buddist and muslims?

    again, not into satanism, just curious

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009


    See the thing about religion is that I dont actually believe it represses sexuality, I dont believe any of them do, they just put it in its place and accord it an appropriate amount of attention.

    Which to the absurdly dysfunctionally obsessed society in which we live appears like repression.

    On the question of sexuality, procreation and marriage among the religious in the Christian and specifically Roman Catholic tradition, it has been overwritten and misunderstood and that misunderstanding has been further distorted across generations but originally a lot of the vows of celibacy and sexual abstainence (spelling) had close relationships to fidelity to religious orders, some of them military, all of them placing demands upon individuals which would have rendered them neglectful husbands and fathers, in the case of the military orders the Church did not want to be repeatedly petitioned by war widows and orphans or be complicit in the sorts of crisis occuring when men abandon home, hearth and kin to go adventuring in war torn climes. Similarly if your monastic order is raising a monastry, then engaging in scholarship or the work of scribes from morning to night, embarking on a long journey with no predetermined destination you'll be as good as a dead beat to any dependents.

    A lot of real logistical and practical reasons there that have nothing to do with repressive hating on sex lives, pleasures of the flesh or anything of that kind.

    Similarly there is the idea of a calling, now this isnt mystical or esoteric particularly, at least I dont think so, it doesnt need to be a celestial or cosmic shout out accompanied by dazzling light parting the clouds. Its simply that once you find your passion it becomes your preoccupation and your priorities change. No one would seriously imagine pouring disdain upon a grand prix race driver for hating on chess or ocean swims because their focus is driving fast cars the other occupations dont enter into their heads. This is what it seems like when I hear the rants about religious and sexuality for the Nth time.

    Finally, there are religions which combine sexuality and spirituality, tantric sex for instance, the karma sutra is another example, even islam and christianity have their own pillow books, context and appropriate relationships is everything however and often the idea what monogamy, fidelity, commitment are preconditions or of important consideration to happy sexual relationships arent exclusive to religious sources. Arent exclusive to conservative sources either. Those sexual liberationists who throw those ideas out are witless and stuck in a moment of adolescent desperation and anxiety if you ask me.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

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