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Lying is acceptable/unacceptable.

sculpting

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Jan 28, 2009
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I need to learn to lie or at least keep my mouth shut a little more. To be honest i have grown to have a harder time with being passive and am now too direct in my communication for most people. I am working to value the indirect, meandering, less efficient path over the direct, forceful path.

Theoretically it is better to say nothing than to lie, so I try and avoid situations in which I would be forced to be false in what i say.
 

Not_Me

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@Not Me Isn't rape always harmful? Lying isn't necessarily harmful.
I was suggesting that sex (not rape) was not a universal taboo.

It's a deontology vs. consequentailism debate. Reality seems to fly better with consequentialism, or THE GREATER GOOD.

If not for consequences, why should anyone care if they are behaving morally or not?

Perhaps it is the way I was raised -- but to me it seems like you are comparing apples and oranges. :shrug:

In what way are the differences relevant from an ethical perspective? If we simply go by gut feel, then how do we resolve differences when people disagree?
 

Vie

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Because you are comparing sex with lying. They are COMPLETELY different. Your basis for your argument is that sex is repugnant under certain situations such as rape and that lying is similar in that it is disgusting under some situations. But sex, when not rape, is consensual and has the agreement of both parties. Lying? Definitely a one sided thing going on there, and the other party certainly isn't agreeing to it. You're comparing two things that can't be compared. You can think that lying is okay and a tool in some situations, but when in relation to sex -- well, that's a bit of a stretch.
 

Not_Me

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Because you are comparing sex with lying. They are COMPLETELY different.
My comparison is unreasonable, but not if one asserts that consequences are irrelevant when it comes to judging morality. In that case, any act can arbitrarily be declared to be immoral. If that is no longer your position, then my argument is not applicable.
 

Mole

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Mar 20, 2008
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Well its a good thing I'm not shi'a.

They tried to bomb us in Canberra but we caught them, brought them before the Criminal Court, where they were convicted of terrorism, and sentenced to long jail terms.

But they are nothing if not aggressive and continue to attack Australian women as well as our Constitution.

The latest act of aggression is the call from the highest Islamic body in Australia to introduce Sharia.

As I write, Government buildings in Canberra are surrounded by low, reinforced concrete walls to guard against Islamic car bombs.
 

skylights

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taquiyya is self-preservational lying. kind of hard to hold it against anyone.

What do you think of the act of "lying"?

it can range from useful to immensely stupid.

What would you consider a white/black lie. How severe is 'okay'?

white lie is when you give an altered version of your best understanding of things for the sake of someone's benefit. black lie is when you give an alternate version of your best understanding of reality for the lulz, or towards other less altruistic endgoals. "okay" depends entirely on the situation.

Do you find lying cowardly? Are there benefits to lying? is it necessary for survival?

depends on context again. sometimes it is cowardly; sometimes it is not. there are certainly benefits. stupid lying is generally cowardly and with short-term benefits. useful lying is more strategic in nature. it is almost never necessary for survival but it sure can make things easier.

Does anyone firmly believe in the saying that " The Truth Will Set You Free" ?

well, i believe that telling your purest form of understanding of something will free you from the stress of having to remember your own interpretation of events, and the complexities that arise from that. so in a sense, yes, i do believe that. but i don't believe that telling the truth is 100% good all the time.

i think i tend to see "truth" as more fluid than many people, because all interpretations and understandings are colored by who we are and what we think. it would be extraordinarily rare to run across someone who was unbiased.
 

CrystalViolet

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Every body lies. I might exggerate, and lie by omission, and sugar coat. I don't lie to any one but my mother. She never could deal with the truth. It often resulted in meltdowns and histronics, so telling her blantant whoppers was easier for every one. Truth is some times people force you to lie. What do you do with some one who refuses to hear the truth. And I made myself sick over this. I even tried sugar coated versions, same meltdowns and histronics, (and the odd beating when I was younger).
I refuse to have to do that for any one else ever again, and I don't want people thinking they have to lie to me. It's cost me alot of money in therapy.
 

Fluffywolf

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For me there is a difference between purposefully lying, or trying to tell truth where truth is not known, thus ending up lying.

My stance on purposefully lying is against. I understand telling the truth can be harmful, especially short term. But I hope that it will wield long term positive effects, and allows us to learn and evolve. Lying, keeping people dumb, will surely never do much good to anyone, and will only repeat itself until the end of time, if not stopped at some point along the way.
 
F

figsfiggyfigs

Guest
They tried to bomb us in Canberra but we caught them, brought them before the Criminal Court, where they were convicted of terrorism, and sentenced to long jail terms.

But they are nothing if not aggressive and continue to attack Australian women as well as our Constitution.

The latest act of aggression is the call from the highest Islamic body in Australia to introduce Sharia.

As I write, Government buildings in Canberra are surrounded by low, reinforced concrete walls to guard against Islamic car bombs.

I had no idea "car bombs" can be Islamic! Interesting!
 
G

Ginkgo

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whoosh.gif
 

Jonny

null
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I accept lying both because it seems to me to be an essential part of society, and because it has done me more good than harm (as far as I can tell :newwink:). However, there are certain circumstances when I would find particular lies unacceptable, in that I would take measures to punish the prevaricator to prevent possible perpetuation. Instances such as lying about having completed some essential task (e.g. an engineer lying about following proper safety protocols), or any other type of lie which could result in the suffering or physical harm of others would be considered unacceptable.
 
0

011235813

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I'm okay with lying as long as it's not for the sake of personal profit at someone else's expense, or motivated by malice.
 

disregard

mrs
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"Well, men are only men. That's why they lie. They can't tell the truth, even to themselves."
-Rashomon
 

Fluffywolf

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"Well, men are only men. That's why they lie. They can't tell the truth, even to themselves."
-Rashomon

You know that's intended to be a lie, right? It's genius.
 

Sanctus Iacobus

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The truth sets a man free. Why should I lie? What shall I fear besides God (who already knows all things)? Aside from fear of God, fear is only an emotion inordinate with the eventual consequence of a thing. We should cast down our fears with the truth. There is no reason not to.
 

Xyk

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Lying is a cowardly act and I don't like it at all. Morality is a spectrum though. In the example of the axe-murderer at the door, yes, I would lie, because the amount of immorality that would come from lying is WAAAAYY less than allowing your family to die. I don't lie unless it is absolutely unavoidable.
 
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