The Hero?

[Lark]

What's your view of the hero?

I was reading about Fighting Fantasy books lately, I loved them growing up and probably owe learning to read to the genre, anyway, I bought some of the horror and weird fiction varies of the series second hand lately and was reading what the authors themselves had thought about writing them.

There's one of them Prisoners of the Abyss which features a strange cosmic horror in which people are stole away and imprisoned in a sort of phantom zone. The main author of this book had planned to conclude it with you releasing the prisoners, liberating them but forfeiting your life in the process. He described in the interview about how the other main writer in the series objected, he suggested that when the hero triumphs they get the gold and treasure and maybe get made king or something. In the end they compromised, the hero's life was forfeit but the got God like powers in return.

He described how he wanted to take the novels in a "eastern" direction, I'm not sure if it was middle eastern or oriental but it was clear that he saw heroes as self-sacrificing.

What's your view of the hero? Does it resemble one or the other view or is it something different altogether.

 

[dukkha]

I take a Japanese spin to the hero. I remember reading a book in my early 20's called "The Nobility of Failure:Tragic Heroes in the History of Japan". It's resonated with me ever since. The notion that the Hero dies striving to achieve their goal, making a stand for a cause and falling in battle. Beautiful stuff...though not the traditional western hero of good guy wins, bad guy loses.

 

[Coriolis]

I have always related more to anti-heroes. Traditional heroes -- whether they forfeit their lives or gain riches and power in the end -- often seem rather two-dimensional.

 

[Mole]

Blessed is the country that doesn't need heroes.

 

[LightSun]

“I like and fully admire (Martin Luther King Jr.) this man and as well his remarkable passion. His very convictions which set him apart from the norm of what it means to be human for he could conceptualize certain and indefinable truths residing in each heart of man, but not accessible. King, as a man delineated what we all in our spirit realize as the truth. We lack courage to indeed see inside of us and grow. He had this remarkable courage.” LightSun

“I am amazed and incredulous of this beautiful (Helen Keller) soul. I saw two versions of her life story and was so amazed. The fact that she overcame her dilemma, and became both teacher as well as scholastic lecturer is really astounding.” LightSun

 

[Coriolis]

Hello here - long time, no post . . .

 

[ICUP]

Spiderman....

I like the idea of saving people secretly and receiving no recognition for it, of being the unsung hero. I find that incredibly valiant and sexy: a true hero who sacrifices themselves in service to others with no selfish rewards.

 

[Giggly]

Funny this comes up because I caught the movie "Passion of the Christ" on TV the other day. Jesus was the ultimate hero and he died for his people.

I totally heroes but I don't know if they always need to die for me to appreciate them. When they die I do think sacrificing their life is the ultimate but it's also kind of sad. Like why did the one great person have to die? We don't want to see them go. On the other hand, I can see how the heroes image can easily become tainted if he were to remain alive and people watched him after his heroic deeds have been done.

 

[nolla]

I can see how the heroes image can easily become tainted if he were to remain alive and people watched him after his heroic deeds have been done.

Yes. A hero needs to die or disappear after the heroic deed. Otherwise you will have a tv-crew going through their life and apartment, and people will see this is just a normal person. This is true for villains as well. You can't have the bad guy locked up in prison and slowly withering away. See George W Bush and Bin Laden. Bush has disappeared somewhere but not enough (I know I could find about what he is doing if I wanted). Bin Laden was (supposedly) killed. Here you have a story with a true villain but without a true hero. And there's something about it that just wouldn't make a good hero movie. It would make a nice drama, though.

 

[FunnyDigestion]

Cool thread idea. For me a real hero doesn't necessarily die but always has to permanently sacrifice part of themself, i.e, SOME PART of them has to die, regardless of whether they succeed or fail. When it's over they always fade away or leave or change their mind or get incapacitated somehow. Or actually die, like in classical tragedy. I think it has to be that way to be truthful because it reflects what it's like in life when you achieve something: it's awesome at first, people congratulate you etc., but then you move on, the feeling fades & you either get bored again or start to doubt the value of what you've done, so then you're looking for something new to do.

 

[nolla]

I think it has to be that way to be truthful because it reflects what it's like in life when you achieve something: it's awesome at first, people congratulate you etc., but then you move on, the feeling fades & you either get bored again or start to doubt the value of what you've done, so then you're looking for something new to do.

Hmm... Yeah. It seems that stories are built up of this project idea. There is something to be done, and we watch how the character does this, do they succeed and so on. When the deed is done, the story can't go on.

 

[Valiant]

To me a hero is a brave man who like a force of nature inspire those around him and cause change.
Whether it be Napoléon Bonaparte who spread the ideas of freedom and equality, George Washington, William Wallace, Ernesto "Che" Guevara or Florian Geyer; they all fought hard and bloody for something good.
Those are heroes, in my mind. Many others, too. You don't have to be a famous leader to be a hero, there are everyday heroes too.
Anyone who defend someone else for some reason, who stay true to an ideal even when they have to take up arms or violence in defense of their belief. Those that just won't bend.
To be honest, I don't find many of those who aren't type 8's, and having grown up reading about that sort of crap it's no wonder I wanted to be an aggressive defender of ideals myself. No claims of major heroics yet, though

 

[FunnyDigestion]

Hmm... Yeah. It seems that stories are built up of this project idea. There is something to be done, and we watch how the character does this, do they succeed and so on. When the deed is done, the story can't go on.

yeah, i think that's why so many modern stories are based on the reluctant / anti-hero, who might start out strong, do a few things right, look like he might win for a while only to get bored or distracted or fail in some pitiful way & just stop. It's sort of the modern version of tragedy. instead of failing at huge cost, which in a way is success, you neither fail nor succeed at NO cost, which in a way is a more painful failure than dying tragically. To me it reflects how it feels to be alive a lot of the time, when so many of the struggles you face are meaningless struggles-- which you sometimes don't even bother to struggle thru.

 

[nolla]

I wonder if it is even possible to have a story of being instead of doing and make a mainstream movie of it. In a way, the reluctant anti-hero movie is going to that direction. There's also quite a lot of existential problems in movies these days, but still it seems like people don't think a movie is a movie if it isn't concentrated on the doing. How do you end a movie without a project in it that you can either succeed or fail?