Atheists:

[gromit]

I know lots of vegans who think everyone should be vegan too.

 

[Thalassa]

Are the Russians and Chinese nicer than the Americans?

Well, there's the answer to your question, Gromit.

 

[Lark]

I know lots of vegans who think everyone should be vegan too.

Nothing surer to make someone resistant to ever a good idea than giving them the impression they're going to be pressurised or compelled into it.

 

[freeeekyyy]

I think it would be great if religion had less impact in the world. I say this as an evangelical christian. Faith is good, faith means something. Religion is just about rules and making yourself look better. It's totally empty. I think empty religion gets in the way of true faith.

 

[Thalassa]

i'm not sure what you mean by that. one can act lovingly and treat human life as something sacred without believing in a god. i've known many agnostics and atheists and they're just as loving as any religious people i know.

I think if you need to believe in god to care about other people, there's something wrong with you.

I'm gonna love people whether I decide I believe in a god or not. What.the.hell.

 

[Lady_X]

i agree...and maybe i misunderstood him but thought that's why he was saying one must act as tho they do....not sure tho.

 

[Thalassa]

i agree...and maybe i misunderstood him but thought that's why he was saying one must act as tho they do....not sure tho.

I don't really understand what he meant either.

 

[ultimawepun]

It would be better imo if everyone accepted that everyone does and must act as if there is a God regardless of whether they claim there is a God or not. All known facts are based on unprovable beliefs.

The question is, which religion?

 

[Mae]

I'd prefer everyone to be an atheist over everyone being a theist. However, I know a lot of people who do a lot of good things in the spirit of religion. I wonder if those same people would still go out and help the poor and hungry if they lost that reason. I also wonder how many people would be able to keep themselves in check if they didn't have the fear of God hanging over their heads.

 

[Lady_X]

damn...i was adding to my post and accidentally deleted it.

 

[Thalassa]

I wonder if those same people would still go out and help the poor and hungry if they lost that reason.

Frankly sometimes atheists do a better job with these things, in the name of their political ideology.

There are mean nasty atheists and mean nasty religious people. I mean, I guess at least the atheists admit they're being mean and nasty.

I don't know. I really don't see anything socially or economically superior about nations which are officially atheist, as I noted earlier in the thread, but on the other hand you've got those people who do god-awful (ha ha) crazy shit in the name of Their Lord And Savior.

I think people are going to be people no matter what, and without religion you could at least teach people science, but would things really be better?

Also, Buddhists and Taoists can be atheist or agnostic but still relgious or spiritual.

 

[Lady_X]

will you expand on that last bit about the buddhists and taoists?

 

[Thalassa]

will you expand on that last bit about the buddhists and taoists?

There are people who follow the morality and philosophy of Buddhism or Taoism without believing there is a god, or at least being agnostic about the existence of a god.

I think Taoism in general could almost be described as officially agnostic because the Tao is more like an energy of unity in the universe, a force, a flow, it isn't a god per se, it's just The Way of nature and the universe. There is no personality or dogma assigned to the Tao. It isn't a man, or some animal-headed being judging you. It is described as something being at one with the natural order of things.

People can be moral without being theists. One of the most moral people I know of is an agnostic socialist Kantian philosopher.

 

[Lady_X]

right...you're right. i like that. i should read more about taoism.

 

[Beorn]

I think if you need to believe in god to care about other people, there's something wrong with you.

I'm gonna love people whether I decide I believe in a god or not. What.the.hell.

i'm not sure what you mean by that. one can act lovingly and treat human life as something sacred without believing in a god. i've known many agnostics and atheists and they're just as loving as any religious people i know.

...

i agree...and maybe i misunderstood him but thought that's why he was saying one must act as tho they do....not sure tho.

Yes, people can be loving without religion, but without religion there is no reason to be loving. They have just as much reason to act any other way they want and can easily justify it. This is because the love is just a random act and no better or worst than anything society deems bad. There can be no absolute good or bad in materialistic atheism thus everything is permissible.

Marm, when you say "there is something wrong with you" within your system of belief that statement is meaningless because it's just your opinion. You must be able to believe their is a God and creator of universal law to make judgements that other people have "something wrong with them." You obviously are making a judgement which you mean to have more weight then your own opinion therefore you are acting as if there is a God even though you claim there isn't one.

The question is, which religion?

The most consistent and coherent one.

 

[Lady_X]

the feeling of right vs wrong doesn't stem from a spiritual place for everyone. it is not the fear of being punished in the after life that steers their actions.

 

[Beorn]

the feeling of right vs wrong doesn't stem from a spiritual place for everyone. it is not the fear of being punished in the after life that steers their actions.

I'm not speaking of feelings, spirituality, or fear. You are reading into my statements all kinds of things I haven't even hinted at.

If someone is a materialistic atheist (nothing exists other than the physical and material world) they have no consistent basis for any values. They certainly may have values but they are being inconsistent unless they acknowledge that their values are nothing but an illusion... But almost everybody acts as if their values matter.

 

[Lady_X]

I'm not speaking of feelings, spirituality, or fear. You are reading into my statements all kinds of things I have'nt even hinted at.

If someone is a materialistic atheist (nothing exists other than the physical and material world) they have no consistent basis for any values. They certainly may have values but they are being inconsistent unless they acknowledge that their values are nothing but an illusion... But almost everybody acts as if their values matter.

i'm sorry...i honestly don't mean to read into what you've written. i guess i'm having a hard time understanding what you mean. it sounds like you think without faith in an afterlife that ones values are meaningless. that one would have no reason to chose right over wrong.

 

[erm]

If someone is a materialistic atheist (nothing exists other than the physical and material world) they have no consistent basis for any values. They certainly may have values but they are being inconsistent unless they acknowledge that their values are nothing but an illusion.

How does not being a materialistic atheist change that? How can there be any stronger basis for a value than what materialistic atheists have?

If god can make a universal law to instil a value into the universe, why can't that same value exist without god? How does a value get instilled into the universe any more than what you conceive happens in a purely materialistic one, even with god? How is that special, rather than arbitrary and just people's opinions on god's laws?

I guess the simplest form of these questions is, "how can a value ever be anything more than an arbitrary mental entity, existing solely in people's minds?"

 

[Nicodemus]

That must be your favorite argument against atheists, Beefeater.