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Sinai-Mountain High? Holy Moses!

swordpath

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Maybe It's just a story and none of it ever happened at all? Such pointless speculation.

I bet all the religious people here hate us. hahah.

We come into all these threads and say "No way, it's fake, god isn't real/god hates us, etc." :laugh:

Not that we're trying to piss people off, it's obviously how we feel/what we believe but I find it funny.
 

sassafrassquatch

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I bet all the religious people here hate us. hahah.

We come into all these threads and say "No way, it's fake, god isn't real/god hates us, etc." :laugh:

Not that we're trying to piss people off, it's obviously how we feel/what we believe but I find it funny.

I really don't see any reason why religious/spiritual beliefs should get a pass.

Scientology doesn't get a pass but Christianity does? I don't see a difference between them, one is just a few thousand years older. If Scientology survives for a thousand years it will be a respected elder religion. They're both equally destructive, Christians are just as nutty and Scientologists, their beliefs are equally stupid and wrong.
 

swordpath

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I really don't see any reason why religious/spiritual beliefs should get a pass.

Scientology doesn't get a pass but Christianity does? I don't see a difference between them, one is just a few thousand years older. If Scientology survives for a thousand years it will be a respected elder religion. They're both equally destructive, Christians are just as nutty and Scientologists, their beliefs are equally stupid and wrong.

I agree.

Off topic - Where in Oregon do you live? Not Portland by chance?
 

zarc

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I really don't see any reason why religious/spiritual beliefs should get a pass.

Scientology doesn't get a pass but Christianity does? I don't see a difference between them, one is just a few thousand years older. If Scientology survives for a thousand years it will be a respected elder religion. They're both equally destructive, Christians are just as nutty and Scientologists, their beliefs are equally stupid and wrong.

Well, I don't agree with religion any more than you do and agree with what you said, for the most part. But spirituality is entirely different. People can have a religion without being spiritual and they can have a religion and be spiritual. People who are spiritual do not necessarily have a religion, such as I. :D There's no enforcing, or spreading through enforcing, of beliefs. Take what you want, reject what you will. Rather like Buddhism (which is erroneously thought of as a religion). It's just a set of principles which people take and use to enhance their lives.

Anyhoo, this is all off-topic. I think Jennifer might want it to remain within bounds of the OP?
 

swordpath

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DeliriousDisp. - Can a non fuzzy-feely person such as myself benefit from and enjoy something like buddhism? (assuming you follow or are knowledgeable on it?)

Also, can you be a agnostic and be a buddhist?

edit:
Genuine interest in understanding buddhism more. I'm not arguing or debating.
 

sassafrassquatch

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I don't think we need yet another pointless flamewar on the subject.

If this spirituality of yours is just a philosophical thing then fine. But then why call it spiritual if no spirits are involved? If you do have an invisible friend then you're just as nutty as the Scientologists and their Thetans. So your magic friend didn't give you a rule book to follow, it's still a screwy thing to believe in.
 

zarc

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DeliriousDisp. - Can a non fuzzy-feely person such as myself benefit from and enjoy something like buddhism? (assuming you follow or are knowledgeable on it?)

Also, can you be a agnostic and be a buddhist?

edit:
Genuine interest in understanding buddhism more. I'm not arguing or debating.

I'm not a follower of Buddhism, however I have read on it and it would be close to my philosophies. I can think you could be agnostic and follow ideas within Buddhism. One understanding of Buddhism is that you attain self-knoweldge. You release yourself from external/internal sufferings due to your experiences, as opposed to be trapped by them (such as from social conditioning, a bad childhood, bad people in your life, or your own poor self-esteeem etc) or enhancing what you already have if you considering your life having been good thus far. It's about directly experiencing reality for yourself as opposed to following others beliefs. Buddhists share their philosophies, do rituals which are perceived as similar to other religions but it's not. They create their own understanding of their teachings and come to their own self-awareness and understanding of themselves and others. (Btw, ever heard of Buddhists killing/creating wars to spread their "religion"?) It's just a way of life. I wouldn't follow it strictly, I don't think you'd like to either, but using the tools such as meditation or becoming self-aware is appealing.

I don't think we need yet another pointless flamewar on the subject.

If this spirituality of yours is just a philosophical thing then fine. But then why call it spiritual if no spirits are involved? If you do have an invisible friend then you're just as nutty as the Scientologists and their Thetans. So your magic friend didn't give you a rule book to follow, it's still a screwy thing to believe in.

Calling it magic friend or w/e? What is your reasoing for saying such a thing?That's nice, to judge others without understanding their philosophies or understanding what "spirit" means/is understood to them. You want to hold your own beliefs, for surely it IS a belief to discount all others if you do so, then that's fine too. For you to say something is a screwy thing to believe in is just as ignorant and unjustified as other religions/people do. I won't elucidate you further as there's no point to within this thread (make one if you want, I shall respond~). No one was creating a pointless flamewar. I was explaining to you the differences of religion and spirituality which I found to be erroneously merged, that's all.
 

sassafrassquatch

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Calling it magic friend or w/e? What is your reasoing for saying such a thing?
Because religion and spirituality usually involves a friendly relationship with some imaginary entity which is magical in nature, thus magic friend.
That's nice, to judge others without understanding their philosophies or understanding what "spirit" means/is understood to them.
I'm not judging you, I'm mocking silly ideas. I hold everyone and everything in contempt anyway.
You want to hold your own beliefs, for surely it IS a belief to discount all others if you do so, then that's fine too.
I'm a nihilist, I don't have beliefs that I'm aware of.
For you to say something is a screwy thing to believe in is just as ignorant and unjustified as other religions/people do.
:party2: Meh.
I won't elucidate you further as there's no point to within this thread (make one if you want, I shall respond~). No one was creating a pointless flamewar. I was explaining to you the differences of religion and spirituality which I found to be erroneously merged, that's all.
I've done enough damage here, g'day mates :hi:
 

Ojian

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The reason why this suggestion seems to preposterous to me is because it goes against nearly everything as to how the ancient Jewish culture is portrayed.

As was already suggested, there were a lot of ancient cultures that actively used hallucinogenic drugs as part of their religious rituals. The ancient Jewish laws and religious writings did just about everything they could to stand apart from the nations around them with regards to conduct and religion. Use of drugs in religious practices was closely tied to spiritism, in fact some of the Jewish laws prohibitions against spiritistic practices actually use a Hebrew word that could also be translated as ‘druggery’

Jewish religions practices were explained in great detail, from the processes for conducting sacrifices and even how the priests would dress. Leaving out any mention of a drug substance would be highly unusual.

Even considering the consuming of food and alcohol, there was quite a bit of admonition and warnings given, especially for overuse. To conspicuously miss any mention of drugs as a substance that was normally used doesn’t lend much support to it actually being there.

And even if you were to consider that Moses was high when he supposedly had his experiences, what about all the other persons that had related experiences, sometimes to the same event that Moses was going thru. Were they all using the same drug and having the same hallucination?

If someone doesn’t buy the stories because they just can’t see them happening or don’t want to believe in the possibility of them, that is one thing. But this professor basically decides to link a drug experience he had with the ancient record, simply because they sounded mildly the same. It’s weak speculation that goes against everything the old Jewish culture represented. But it’s going to receive a lot of traction because the idea of Moses being a druggy probably sounds appealing to the anti-religious crowd.
 

Haight

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And even if you were to consider that Moses was high when he supposedly had his experiences, what about all the other persons that had related experiences, sometimes to the same event that Moses was going thru. Were they all using the same drug and having the same hallucination?
Good point. And my thoughts exactly.

However, one could say that they'd have to be on drugs to accept the Mitvah's, which made life extraordinarily difficult for Jews from the point forward.
 

zarc

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Because religion and spirituality usually involves a friendly relationship with some imaginary entity which is magical in nature, thus magic friend.

And no, spirituality doesn't usually involve some imaginary entity which is magical in nature so does not equate to having a magic friend to help them. Read up more on differing ideas before you make such silly claims yourself.

I'm not judging you, I'm mocking silly ideas. I hold everyone and everything in contempt anyway.

I'm a nihilist, I don't have beliefs that I'm aware of.

You do know that nihilism is a philosophy, don't you? :huh: You take the view point of being a nihilst, a philosophical belief. Well, so long as you hold everyone and everything in contempt, including yourself, no harm! :D
 

sassafrassquatch

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And no, spirituality doesn't usually involve some imaginary entity which is magical in nature so does not equate to having a magic friend to help them. Read up more on differing ideas before you make such silly claims yourself.

Notice the big fat IFs in my reply to your post.

I don't think we need yet another pointless flamewar on the subject.

If this spirituality of yours is just a philosophical thing then fine. But then why call it spiritual if no spirits are involved? If you do have an invisible friend then you're just as nutty as the Scientologists and their Thetans. So your magic friend didn't give you a rule book to follow, it's still a screwy thing to believe in.

You do know that nihilism is a philosophy, don't you? :huh: You take the view point of being a nihilst, a philosophical belief. Well, so long as you hold everyone and everything in contempt, including yourself, no harm! :D

I'm not a philosophical nihilist. I just call myself that for lack of a better term. We're all just objects in space, floating around without meaning or purpose in a universe that is the result of... no one knows what but it certainly wasn't created by a god or a magical thing that farts universes into existence. Even if the universe was created by a god or a thing it would all still be meaningless, just because some magic man says something has purpose doesn't make it so. That's just, like, his opinion, man.
 

Owl

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I don't think we need yet another pointless flamewar on the subject.

If this spirituality of yours is just a philosophical thing then fine. But then why call it spiritual if no spirits are involved? If you do have an invisible friend then you're just as nutty as the Scientologists and their Thetans. So your magic friend didn't give you a rule book to follow, it's still a screwy thing to believe in.

Do you believe in causality?
 

Owl

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You mean causality as in "the universe requires a cause, therefore god exists?"

Oh, no.

I mean that causality is invisible. If you believe that there is such a thing as causality, then its existence must be inferred from the understanding, and not the senses.

Similarly, spirits and God are said to be invisible, but that does not mean that it is impossible to infer their existence from the understanding.
 

sassafrassquatch

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Oh, no.

I mean that causality is invisible. If you believe that there is such a thing as causality, then its existence must be inferred from the understanding, and not the senses.

Similarly, spirits and God are said to be invisible, but that does not mean that it is impossible to infer their existence from the understanding.
Huh. I've never heard that definition of causality before. Causality like a string of dominoes, each one knock the next one over, each event causes the next, then yeah. Everyone has different gods though.
 

Owl

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Huh. I've never heard that definition of causality before. Causality like a string of dominoes, each one knock the next one over, each event causes the next, then yeah. Everyone has different gods though.

No doubt.

But the point I'd like to make is this: belief in a god, or spirits, is the same as belief in causality in that 1) each belief is used to interpret experinece and 2)the justification for each belief rests not on sense datum alone, but on their ability to provide a meaningful interpretation of experience.

E.g., when you see a line of dominoes falling, you could interpret that experience in many ways. It could be that as one domino falls it bumps the next one, causing it to fall too. It could be that a breeze is pushing them all down (maybe no domino has enough mass/velocity to knock the next over on its own?). Maybe the dominoes are alive, (or at least self-moving), and falling on their own power?

The interpretations above assume causality, but if causality weren't necessary, it could be the case that one domino falls, and then the next falls, but the fact that they fall in order and close together in time is just a coincidence.

Must we refer to causality to meaningfully interpret our experience, or is causality just another imaginary friend that we've no epistemic right to believe in?
 
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reason

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Must we refer to causality to meaningfully interpret our experience, or is causality just another imaginary friend that we've no epistemic right to believe in?
We have epistemic rights? Interesting.
 
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