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Seeing the world

targobelle

~*taaa raaa raaa boom*~
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
2,584
MBTI Type
enfp
This topic has been sparked by hereandnows Blog. He was discussing political stuff and views were brought up. These views got me thinking.

I realize that the world (IMO at least) is many shades of gray, but so many seem to see it as black and white. What I wonder is if it's typically (okay I am generalizing and looking for input) a J characteristic to see the world as Black and white, and a P characteristic to see the world as shades of Gray?
 

nightning

ish red no longer *sad*
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,741
MBTI Type
INfj
Hmmmm I don't see the world as black and white... and neither do many INXJs in my opinion. However I sometimes like dividing things as "more black" vs "more white" simply in terms of figuring out what actions to take. If something exceeds threshold, then you act upon it. Perhaps that's where the "black and white" distinction might have arise from...

As to SJs, I think in general they like looking at distinct categories more than spectrums simply because sensing perception is very concrete. So I suppose they would be more likely to use more extreme black and white distinctions compared to NJs. But most of the SJs I talk to definately know about the shades of grays in between, they just prefer not to dwell on those too much.
 

rivercrow

shoshaku jushaku
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
1,555
MBTI Type
type
Do people actually see the world, or do they only see the reflections of their beliefs?
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Hmm. All I know is that my ENFP friend once told me that I'm one of the least judgmental people she knows, but I'm very opinionated.
 

sdalek

New member
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
298
MBTI Type
ISFJ
This topic has been sparked by hereandnows Blog. He was discussing political stuff and views were brought up. These views got me thinking.

I realize that the world (IMO at least) is many shades of gray, but so many seem to see it as black and white. What I wonder is if it's typically (okay I am generalizing and looking for input) a J characteristic to see the world as Black and white, and a P characteristic to see the world as shades of Gray?

I was taught by my mother that things are supposed to be a certain way (black or white); What I learned later in life is that things are shades of gray, with the variation depending on your own viewpoint. While I still operate from the viewpoint that things should be a certain way (black or white), I try not to fixate on that so much that I can't see the shades of gray. The one thing that seeing things as black or white helps with is that in certain situations you aren't thrown into inactivity because you can't decide; It lets you move on and then you can adjust and moderate as necessary and learn better strategies in life later on (though sometimes it does take a while to modify responses ;))
 

spartan26

New member
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
189
MBTI Type
INTP
People take comfort in the black and the white they see. Isn't post modernism simply having your blacks and whites distorted?

I don't know if all absolutes are bad. It'd be great to see more people to stand up for what they feel is right than just follow step. "We're gonna bend the rules because everybody else is and that's the only way to compete" can be an example.

I think a lot of it is when people firmly see white when we see black. People also see what they want to see. Like watching a boxing match. It's really amazing how people will only see the punches landing by the fighter they're rooting for.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
1,511
MBTI Type
ENTP
I hate talk of 'black and white vs. gray' now, it's one of the biggest and most useless cliches out there. Most people don't realize that dismissing your opponent in an argument as 'only seeing things in black and white' is just a pc way of saying they're wrong without having to admit you're no more likely to budge from your position than they are. It's on par with trying to win the argument by saying the other person is wrong because they're 'closed-minded'.
Think about it, does anyone ever say "sorry, I'm right because everything is black and white. You're wrong because nothing is gray"? No, it's always a tactic used to attack the other guy.
 

Ivy

Strongly Ambivalent
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
23,989
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6
I hate talk of 'black and white vs. gray' now, it's one of the biggest and most useless cliches out there. Most people don't realize that dismissing your opponent in an argument as 'only seeing things in black and white' is just a pc way of saying they're wrong without having to admit you're no more likely to budge from your position than they are. It's on par with trying to win the argument by saying the other person is wrong because they're 'closed-minded'.
Think about it, does anyone ever say "sorry, I'm right because everything is black and white. You're wrong because nothing is gray"? No, it's always a tactic used to attack the other guy.

You've seriously never seen anyone argue that? It happens all the time. "You're either with us or against us." "What's right is right, and what's wrong is wrong. If you can't see that, you probably have no morals."
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
1,511
MBTI Type
ENTP
You've seriously never seen anyone argue that? It happens all the time. "You're either with us or against us." "What's right is right, and what's wrong is wrong. If you can't see that, you probably have no morals."

being confident or principled in your position isn't the same thing as saying- "I'm right about this because I'm right about everything and everything is either right or wrong"
 

Ivy

Strongly Ambivalent
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
23,989
MBTI Type
INFP
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6
being confident or principled in your position isn't the same thing as saying- "I'm right about this because I'm right about everything and everything is either right or wrong"

My parents say that all the time. :)
 

draon9

Active member
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Messages
1,176
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so
I see the world as an extremely dark and unpredictable. I said this because you do not know who people are really are, you do not know why they want to be your friend or enemy or neither. There are people who can mask their personality well and once they strike, it will be a complete mind swapped, your inner world will be upside down, down is the new up and up is the new down, you will start questioning everything that you see and you will even question who you are, the stairs will be scattered and your mind that you thought is full of knowledge, is now a puzzle and every you answer leads to another question and so on, it will be a none circle in your mind, but the main question is never who, but why to every single one of them. The world will always divide and rise up from itself due to people always sabotaging themselves and all you can ask is why.
 

ilikeitlikethat

You're unbelievable ...
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
2,158
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xNTP
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7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Let me just start off by saying I'm... Eurotrash.
Right, I'm British, from London, work in London including in The Shard and The Gherkin (iconic buildings of this city) with my day job and my Saturday job sees me in Soho promoting a nightclub. Never forget MY HOMETOWN'S STAMP ON THE WORLD - rock, Union Jack, London fashion, drugs.. Am most definitely a drift in a sea of drugs and meaningless sex; even if London is a metro like New York City.
So me kicking around Europe, for me is 'the thing to do', I'm not saying every European is Eurotrash, but I am.
I look at my life in London, Soho, and guitar and drugs and girls and people and stuff, from Soho Original Books being 'the way' for me... I am Eurotrash.
So no matter where I go, I am Eurotrash.

Kicked around Amsterdam, stayed in the Red Light District, didn't go for the sex, I mean, Soho's perfect. But I did go for the drugs.
I love to get stoned and Amsterdam is the one.
Quickly found my local coffeehouses, roamed the city as well as smoke, eat space cake, and partied at night walking through the city back to my hotel in the early hours of the morning.
That was cool, Amsterdam is cool.

I've been to the United States... I think everyone should at least once in their life; See who control the world.
I was me, and I was 17 last time I went. I was already fucking and getting stoned (fun fact, I lost my virginity to a one night stand on the 9th and flew out to Philadelphia on the 14th and a week from losing my virginity I was on a balcony at my brother's then apartment in Pennsylvania in June 2004...
So even then I was; me. From here and everything.
I got carded when I tried to buy cigarettes and managed to buy some too, so it was hit and miss for me trying to get a cigarette out there because in England, the smoking age was 16 and I had been smoking since 14 and developed a habit.
Drank black coffee there too. at this Mormon wedding too.
Looking back, I was a bit of a freak.
Stayed with my sister in Seaside Heights, she lived 5/10 minutes away from the board walk there.
Years later in England I saw an episode of The Jersey Shore and fell off my seat, even had some guy I met too!.
It's a small, beautiful world.
 

ilikeitlikethat

You're unbelievable ...
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
2,158
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xNTP
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7w8
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sx/so
ALSO

Vision is a perception which is an illusion that our brains create an image of by flipping the light received by the cones in the eyes which then gets turned upside at the lense part of our eye giving our brain an upside down picture of the world that the brain has to be a brain about and then flip it/see it, so we see it right side up.
So basically the world is out there, light bounces and light receptive cones in our eyes catch the light and our lenses in our eyes focus and it somehow gets flipped on it's head so the brain has to decode and flip vision right side up again.

I mean, it's all relative!

Just look at pigeons, their brains operate on a different level of speed.
So a movie to us is a bunch of still pictures to a pigeon.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/what-shapes-film/201406/why-you-can-t-take-pigeon-the-movies
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
Ancient post but I will reply.

I realize that the world (IMO at least) is many shades of gray, but so many seem to see it as black and white. What I wonder is if it's typically (okay I am generalizing and looking for input) a J characteristic to see the world as Black and white, and a P characteristic to see the world as shades of Gray?


I think this is more of educated or uneducated thing to tell you my vision on the truth.


The thing with Js is that they often reduce problem(s) into boxes because that way it is much easier to find solutions that will fix the situation. However that in general doesn't mean that they don't see the full spectrum of what is going on. Js are often much better at solving protocol problems and keeping things under control exactly because most of the time they don't search for the last detail of data in order to make up their mind ... and they actually want to make up their mind even if understanding is not 100% complete. (especially since often it will never be fully complete)
 
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