User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 30

  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    23,447

    Default

    If God is supposedly dead is sin a dead concept too?

    What would an athiest's perspective on sin be? Is it just a primitive precursor to ethics or a concept prefiguring the super-ego/moral compass?
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  2. #12
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    8,154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    If God is supposedly dead is sin a dead concept too?
    Not necessarily.

    I think it causes the concept to evolve.

    Of course, I don't believe God is really dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    What would an athiest's perspective on sin be? Is it just a primitive precursor to ethics or a concept prefiguring the super-ego/moral compass?
    Those are two pretty decent explanations of how most atheists probably look at things.
    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6
    Debator


  3. #13
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    7w8 so/sx
    Socionics
    SLE Ti
    Posts
    2,190

    Default

    Psh, sounds boring.

    Interpretations of sin are different. Me going and sleeping with a bunch of people in the next hour would throw me into Hell automatically to some, or even me being on the pill. :rolli:

  4. #14
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,707

    Default

    Sin as a concept is not strictly limited to disobeying a supernatural entity ('as we forgive those who sin against us'...), so in places where 'God is dead' the emphasis will simply shift more toward denying someone their rights or violating norms of recriprocity.

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    23,447

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Sin as a concept is not strictly limited to disobeying a supernatural entity ('as we forgive those who sin against us'...), so in places where 'God is dead' the emphasis will simply shift more toward denying someone their rights or violating norms of recriprocity.
    So given this and what Zarathrustra has said would you guys think that the idea of sin one which if it did not exist it would have to be invented kind of thing? Is it a good then if it is reframed?

    I think its a concept which was in some ways more real to me when I was younger than it is now but it remains something I think about to this day, I think it gave me motivation to exercise self-control and personal responsibility before I could properly rationalise why and think consequentially, I really think I benefited more than my peers who where simply trying to dodge adult or other authority or prohibitions and formal sanctions.

    Its just one of many ideas which has survived across the generational span that well and I think the world has suffered as a consequence. I first started thinking about this when I experienced the "sudden disappearence" of marxism in the ninties from serious discourse and just the volume of books which where being discarded in the libraries was a good indicator of the change but with time I think marxism was just one example of an idea which did not and could not sustain, I dont believe it was ever that deeply rooted because of a number of things, although, and it could just be the UK, I think there's a lot more and more important ideas and norms which arent materialising or being passed on as they once where.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  6. #16
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,293

    Default

    It's more intelligent and infinitely more sensitive to realize that people do things for a variety of reasons (including mental illness, among others) than there just being this black and white "sin."

    There is still LAW. There is still is good and bad. But the concept of sin is limited and ignorant.

  7. #17
    The Duchess of Oddity Queen Kat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    E.T.
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    3,116

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    I never understood that phrase.

    "Money" makes the world go 'round. "Sin" makes the world go 'round. "Love" makes the world go 'round. If the metaphor's supposed to hint at the true nature of humans, then why mention just one thing? Human drama, love, suffering, joy as well as the systems in which these states operate (financial, cultural, etc.) and everything else we know as beings should also be included, shouldn't it? Nothing exists in a vaccuum.

    ...

    Alright so what is this thread about?

    /shameless derail
    I wasn't serious. I just thought it was a cool thing to say.
    I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower. The TV was obviously on. I used to fly myself and I said, "There's one terrible pilot."
    - George W. Bush -


    SCUAI - 7w8 sx/sp - Chaotic Evil - Fucking Cute - ALIVE

    Blog. Read it, bitches.
    Questions? Click here
    If you don't agree about my MBTI type, you can complain about it here. I've had plenty of people telling me I'm something else, in my reputation box. That's annoying.

  8. #18
    / nonsequitur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    512 sp/so
    Posts
    1,905

    Default

    Watch the movie "Serenity". Or you may already have and that's where this topic came from.

    "Let me show you a world without sin."

  9. #19
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    827 sp/so
    Posts
    20,724

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    If God is supposedly dead is sin a dead concept too?

    What would an athiest's perspective on sin be? Is it just a primitive precursor to ethics or a concept prefiguring the super-ego/moral compass?
    I already answered that, but I doubt you read my post
    “The phrase 'Someone ought to do something' was not, by itself, a helpful one. People who used it never added the rider 'and that someone is me'.” - Terry Pratchett

  10. #20
    darkened dreams Ravenetta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,680

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    It's more intelligent and infinitely more sensitive to realize that people do things for a variety of reasons (including mental illness, among others) than there just being this black and white "sin."

    There is still LAW. There is still is good and bad. But the concept of sin is limited and ignorant.
    Absolutely. the word "sin" is a dismissal of a human being's worth because it makes them "worthy" of eternal death and/or torment. Human beings still cause destructive problems and like you say, there are reasons behind those behaviors. Understanding and correcting the underlying problems is preventative and the best problem solving I know.

    The way to do this without judgment is to have enough humility to know that when placed in a different set of circumstances, even I, or even you, could be impacted differently and could in fact be the source of those same problems.

    From a philosophical perspective, humanity can be distilled down to one conceptual idea, the existence of each actual person is yet another manifestation of that concept. I have good qualities because my genetics and environments nurtured those things. Some of us win the lottery to varying degree while others of us don't. We then take to punishing the ones who didn't. Understanding cause and effect to solve social problems without judgment is far more enlightened than the motivation to punish anyone who doesn't fall into category A [defined subjectively as "good" by a group] and instead is deamed worth less and deserving of punishment because of who they are and not because of what they did which is category B [Sinner, or bad people].

Similar Threads

  1. World without NT's.
    By Athenian200 in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 02-24-2011, 05:19 AM
  2. A world without water
    By Virtual ghost in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-24-2010, 07:21 PM
  3. A world without INTPs
    By Salomé in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 79
    Last Post: 11-24-2008, 05:46 PM
  4. A world without ENFPs
    By Nillerz in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 11-24-2008, 02:29 PM
  5. World without Cars!
    By Little Linguist in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 08-18-2008, 03:40 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO