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Thread: Loving God?

  1. #281


    Quote Originally Posted by Merkw View Post
    I am willing to argue that the laws of physics may be explained through the big bang itself. The particular chaotic release of energy, as well as the combination, formation, re-combination, etc. of mass had occurred in such a way that our forces of nature happen to be in their current form merely because of the chaotic manner in which our particular universe came into being. Similarly, in other hypothetical universes, laws of physics are likely to be completely different, again, viz. chaos theory.

    And you never explained your reason as to why you believe god's creation to be more likely than an infinite set of universes in terms of both space and time.
    But then where did the energy come from? i mean we can keep asking forever where did this come from and it seems that there will be no end to it. If the infinite number of universes theory is to be valid then isn't there a need for structure in between the verses? So before we could make that claim we would have to explain that structure and where it came from.

    I don't know, the theory of a superior being and multiple universes both seem valid to me, perhaps they are connected somehow? Maybe God created the multi-verse? Both are eloquent.

    Yet, there's just something inexplicable that draws me towards the idea of a superior being, that sense of purpose, and that all this beauty around us was created by a divine hand... but it seems that it is just as eloquent if it came from chaos. Both theories fulfill my idea of creating our own purpose in this world.

    Just one thing bothers me about the theory w/o God... it's that we are intelligent, we have thoughts, emotions, and many people, including myself, have a strong idea of the soul. So that's why i think the two theories are linked... and right now i feel my intuition beginning to bubble, might have an epiphany about this.... have to organize these thoughts and figure it out...
    INFJ, 2w1

    "I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to those teachers. " - Khalil Gibran

  2. #282


    Sin in the bible means anything done in disobedience to God. Like not honouring our bodies is a sin. Being self-abusive is a sin.

  3. #283
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I was wondering why we're focusing on the Christian God instead of the idea of God in general, as I am not a Christian, but I guess I should just write myself out of this debate since that's the only one that anyone is going to bother looking at

    thanks a lot!

    *whatever wanders off and seriously ponders writing closed mindedness on the list of apparent "virtues"*
    “The phrase 'Someone ought to do something' was not, by itself, a helpful one. People who used it never added the rider 'and that someone is me'.” - Terry Pratchett

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by hungrypossum View Post
    I have explained SOOO many times in this thread that everything God says in the bible is to protect us. For instance, God ordered Adam to make himself a garment of animal skin after he saw that he was naked, cos Adam was using leaves to cover himself and his wife! Back then, Adam wasn't smart enough to see the logic behind it. Till today, we cannot see the logic behind the things we do cause we enjoy doing it. Jesus didn't say we couldnt drink, he turned water into wine and this wine was used to celebrate at a wedding banquet.

    The bible says do not abuse the body given to you. I cannot find a bible verse that says Thou must not do drugs.

    About sex: here is the verse for you.

    "Drink water from your own cistern, running water from your own well. Should your springs overflow in the streets, your streams of water in public squares? Let them be yours alone, never to be shared with strangers. May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth. A loving doe, a graceful deer - may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captivated by her love."

    If you love that person and want to have sex with them, what God says is that get married first and stick with that one person. We cannot see our future, but if you do believe the bible, you'll believe that his advice is good. God made sex pleasurable to us as a gift, but he wants us to honour and respect ourselves and others.
    I have not wanted to participate in this discussion but I'm doing it, perhaps, in futile attempt. My aim is not to incite your upset but to hopefully open your awareness nicely.

    Firstly. Have you read the entire bible? Have you read the entire Koran, the Torah, principles of Buddhism or any other religion existent or now non-existent? Holy texts such as the Rigveda of Hinduism which were created about 1500BCE as the first recorded religious text? Have you researched mythologies? Greek/Roman/European/American Indian/Asian/African religions and mythologies?

    How about Sumerian (thought of as the first civilisation) or its religion? Have you heard of Gilgamesh or his epic? Do you know that a lot of religions, esp Judeo-Christian ones, have their roots in Sumer or Mesopotamian/Babylonian mythologies? The flood myth is a big one (within Gilgamesh's epic). They did a comparison and it's near-exact word for word from Sumer's text to Hebrew to Christian. I can't find it but I'll look if you want the proof. There are tons of Flood stories all over the world too. Flood/Deluge Myths

    I ask because if so you will have noted that not only are there correlations between nearly all holy texts and stories written in them but that during certain religious conquests others forced their religion onto groups unable of defending themselves and defeating those who were capable of fighting.

    Natives never asked for Europeans to take away their homeland let alone kidnap their children for conversion or convert then kill a good portion of them. North and West African slaves didn't ask to be shipped, herded and MIXED families so there wouldn't be close ties then allowed them to copy/convert (though most of their descendants haven't realised it, they just happily preach now that they belong--). Some Africans converted to Islam but were still taken to Arab countries for slaves. A good portion of Islamic Arab slaves during later centuries were of smaller Eastern Europeans (nobody ever really recalls them for some reason).

    Converting them sometimes nicely but about 98% by force. This is why mostly Judeo-Christian and Islamic faiths are the dominant one. Hinduism too, but they've got a billion people to share between three different faiths and Sikhism and Sufism and I don't recall what else.

    So when you say:
    Quote Originally Posted by hungrypossum
    He doesnt consider one human more beautiful than the other
    You are either willfully naive or entirely ignorant of history or the bible and of the history I threw up there.

    After the Flood,....... Noah's son Ham saw his father naked and informed his brothers, who covered Noah while averting their eyes. Noah awoke and cursed Ham's son Canaan with eternal slavery, while giving his blessing to Shem and Japheth: "Blessed by the Lord my God be Shem; and let Canaan be his slave. God enlarge Japheth, and let him dwell in the tents of Shem; and let Canaan be his slave.
    It was Canaan's father Ham who saw Noah naked, not his youngest son (WHY youngest? ). Kinda irrational to blame the child for the father's mistake, if you ask me. But it's somewhat insightful on how the children of the future often deal with the problems of their parent's mistakes. So "Africans" are Caanan's descendents. Though some speculate that there were never any racial distinctual features put onto Noah's children or great grand children--- and the guy "lived" for 950 years....think there was ample enough time for descriptions of his sons, however old he was. And HOW is there any racial difference if his children's children came from HIM. So irrational lol

    Before you say it was the Caucasian's fault for misinterpreting or justifying, they did not. They only set out to do what the bible said was theirs to claim. The bible states that God states condemn homosexuals. And people try to. However, History of Homosexuality has been around thousands of years in both humans and Animals. God doesn't say anything about condeming animals, not that I recall. It's just a part of human nature, probably to protect the environment from population exceeding what it can handle from both human and animal. So, we may be at the top of the food chain, but below the belt it shakes just the same Ahh, but we can express love, so it's a wee bit different.

    I wonder why prostitutes are so fondly persecuted by religious people when once Mary Magdalene was one and Jesus accepted her, didn't he? He touched the hands of lepers. If he existed, he might just hug homisexuals, never mind embrace them-- I mean, accept accept--- but then again, his dad doesn't like them so he might just marry one off in secrecy. Although, shouldn't an omnipotent and omnisicient and "unconditionally loving" God not understand the differences of his creation? How can a GOD who is supposed to be so far and above human understanding have anyone even gleam his words? HIS? Male, right. Just like the males who had POWER over women of the time and treated them like cattle. Or is that chattel?

    Religion in other faiths, including Islamic and Hindu and Greek etc, have used 'texts' to make slaves of other ethnicities and women of their kind as well. It's just human greed disguised by a pretty quilt or a heavy dollar.

    God or those speaking for 'god' have made women in the bible to be the most easily corruptable sex and they must be sheltered and controlled and submissive. You can find the quotes on your own as I've found and thrown those specific ones years ago when I was a kid. So why is it majority-wise MEN who rape and kill? Maybe their so corruptable because they just can't keep up and "allow" themselves to get hurt (like in the Koran and the Bible)
    I'm certain you're a female, so if so, the reason you have the freedom to have access to a computer with acess to the internet which has loads of information and a means of communicating with others is due to women who labouriously fought for freedoms.

    But you can't be a Priest. Just a nun. Never a Father, just a Sister. Never allowed to lead a flock but to closet yourself in secrecy to love God. Never marry like a male Priest, if allowed, but allowed to love God as a Sister. ---Look at the terminology and delude yourself if you think that God isn't sexist. So, it's MEN who's at fault for misinterpreting the words of God then? Say goodbye to your bible then. You've been following the words of ancient sexist men and the voices of men today who still dictate to you albeit much more nicely.

    God ordered Abraham to kill his son in order to prove his faith. God killed innocent babies because Egyptians were controlling 'his people'. I don't know why God didn't kill the babies of the Romans of ancient (before they converted and practiced 'paganism' and bisexuality) or the Germans. Though, it's probable he still forsakes the Jews.

    God supposedly "flooded" and killed because people became corrupt. If a being such as a God can not 'fix' or 'correct' or 'influence' but instead opts to data-delete and then implement a new program, why hasn't this God done so now when we collectively are more corrupt than ever? And no, not as 'small floods' or 'tsunamis' but in one giant swoop. Heck, why didn't he take away FREE WILL? That'd solved everything.


  5. #285
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    Contd from last post--
    The bible says do not abuse the body given to you. I cannot find a bible verse that says Thou must not do drugs
    Firstly, a drug is inflicting harm, even if it's design is to help. It hinders the body's natural healing abilities even if it enhances it--it's not naturally done. If it cannot heal, well, I'll get to that in a sec.

    If god said not to abuse the body, why is it that in Western cultures we no longer have 'natural' food? Forget even 'fast food'. We have perservatives and a narcotic (okie medicated) mash of drugs infiltrated through cows and chickens and pesticides which cows eat from grass etc etc. Organic is the next best thing but you don't see people crying out for the purity of it, probably the price. Gotta explain to them someday of supply and demand but people are silly until hindsight of all our genetic mutations of Autism and girls menstrating as early as 8 and why penises are getting smaller-- okay, I made the last one up, forbid that! ) We can blame alcohol (*ahem wine*, nicotine, narcotics etc for it not getting up but I digress ...

    We've evolved so much yet people take the word of 'men' thousands of years ago? Accept science and then reject it when it suspects something of their faith and yet ask for all the medicine to help us. Yet medicine is not natural, if you believe that God said to not taint our bodies. It was believed God took when He wanted. So why do people fight so hard to disobey him? Long ago, it was sacrilegious to suggest you could cure when God could not--- Why did religious people change their minds on that front?

    I don't know your education or background or interest or what your favourite colour is. Mine is green, just to let you know. You're 21? So am I.

    And if you truly believe that Adam was the first man to walk the earth, then perhaps my trying to reason with you was all in vain. If you have no common comprehension of evolution or where it began (ie. Africa, where they most certainly wouldn't look like either Adam or Eve), then I guess it's soot under my foot.

    Btw, did you know that Adam had a wife before Eve? Her name, in the Hebrew Bible, is Lilith. He got rid of her because she was too strong a personality. She's now a demon who serves to suck men's energy with lust for eternity and spawn her little inccubi and succubi demons to do it too.

    As for trusting the bible as the final say of God. Did you know that it took several decades before any such written text of Christian doctrine was ever made by Paul/Saul? I mean, think about that, if you look it up and find it was "Jesus" written about and of God and with such certainty after 50 or so years after "Christs" birth? I smell smoke. The bible should never be literally taken but as the proverbial stories they were meant to project as many ancient texts at that time period did the same.

    And no, I didn't read the entire bible. I read probably two thirds when I was younger. I have looked into the others, yes, including mythologies of all kinds and a lot of cultures. I claim no expertise. I found it amusingly funny when during my Intro to Greek/Roman mythologies of all the virgins who were impregnated by gods, Zeus-wide. Psst, compare Dionysius to Jesus or-- you can look up the others. Just type in comparisons on Jesus.

    I may not love a "God" but I am very spiritual. I'm not threatened by new science nor trapped in old dogmatic traditions. If I were, I wouldn't have bothered trying to figure out how humanity is so interconnected! We're a big ball of wires. Really.

    If you cannot refute these arguments or choose not to respond, I'll think it's either because I've flummoxed you or you are deliberately turning a blind eye. I hope that's not the case and that you aren't offended. If after searching or reading more (on w/e you found lacking) and you still decide you want to be a Christian and speak of a male God who was anthropomorphised in "man's" image, then by all means, carry on.

    Note: Any corrections/notes are welcomed. All pokes of religion are meant for humour. If you can't take it, break it. I'll cherish your funny bone in your stead.

  6. #286
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hungrypossum View Post
    Sin in the bible means anything done in disobedience to God. Like not honouring our bodies is a sin. Being self-abusive is a sin.
    ...And judging others for their "sins", isn't that a sin in Christianity?
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  7. #287
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    My last two questions to you, hungrypossam, is if there were no bible for you to follow, would you not have morals of your own and know not to harm because you can be harmed?

    Why create Free Will and then negate it by dictating how we're supposed to live?

  8. #288


    Since I've been making brainless rants from a personal point of view, I apologize again for making any comments offensive. To answer your question, yes, I've read the entire bible over a couple of times. I've attended an Islamic workshop, my parents are Buddhist, and one of my good friends is a Shamanist.

    My last two questions to you, hungrypossam, is if there were no bible for you to follow, would you not have morals of your own and know not to harm because you can be harmed?
    This is all very personal. But I think it's time I shared why God means so much to me, in full.

    I spent so much time last year drinking, and I had so many beer and wine bottle trophies in the apartment, it boggled my friends. I stated that my BGR relationships were far from any sort of innocence. I was the one who asked guys I liked out, and I couldn't be bothered listening to them talk. I preferred to just get physical.

    The kinds of media I watched were not just violence in itself. I had friends who were into necrophilia, who liked watching decapitation sex. I hung out with those friends, because we bonded over this - we were fascinated with the human body. We wondered what life was and we agreed society was stupid - so we spent alot of time exploring what a normal mundane life would not be. We tried everything together. They really got into anime, while I started watching any movie with social commentary.

    I liked it because it questioned the world and it mirrored how I felt. My favourite movies were Battle Royale and All about Lily Chou Chou. Anything by Shunji Iwai. Because they commented on society, and I hated society and everyone about me with a passion. My anger at my parents had never subsided - I blamed them for putting me in Asia for so many years in a culture that I felt stifled everything. All I could see, and this was my point of view, was that everyone was just a bunch of paranoid idiots trying to get a better job and better life - which to them meant a grey office building they turned up to every Monday in tight fitting white shirts.

    Whenever I met them we would fight, because my father ordered me around all the time with his own set of moral values - and they always stuff like "work hard and get a good job and get a stable life". I would swear at him - who cares about his stable life and his stupid job. I took revenge on him anytime and everyway I can, and I even took his toothbrush and stuck it down the toiletbowl, and then put it back on his mantle.

    You see, his values included "being good to his family" but I saw that he had been cruel to my half sister all his life. He never talked to her. And he never explained WHY to anything. They were just...his values. And of course, why should I give a shit to his values?

    He would hit me if my room looked like a mess, and I was angry because his own room was a mess. I was angry because he had a mistress, he came home at 2 or 3am and yet he still said he loved his family. One day he'd hit me and one day he'd pat me on the head, I felt like a dog. I thought that if my father could cheat, so could I too. So one weekend I spent the night at my ex-boyfriend's house .... the fight my parents and I had thereafter....... it was so violent Dad nearly called the police.

    My exboyfriend - he made a living selling illegal DVDs in Singapore. Now if you're caught doing that, its a long, very long jail term. I thought what I knew then was love. Yet, somehow thinking of marrying him sickened me. I saw him shout at his parents and even threaten to hit them, and all I thought was that: that's cool. He can fight against my parents that way too. But eventually we broke up, because I had to move to Australia and I thought I had "more choices there".

    Then I moved to Australia, and I liked it. I wanted to live there. But I could see no point to my degree at all. All those media theories, I thought they were bullcrap, as if my research could ever mean anything at all in the long term. I even planned that if I wanted to work in the media, I would want to work in something like a Shunji Iwai film. I wanted to make a documentary of family or sexual dysfunction.

    I didn't even like going to uni, I called it an expensive day care centre. I didn't even attend any tutorials, and when I wasn't playing online games (I submitted work just to pass uni) I was at a bar, or at my friend's place drinking. We drank together, that guy and I. He was an international student too, and I would just go to his place and we'd watch some kinds of movies together, get drunk. We got along well because he was like me 1) Singaporean, 2) major family problems. His mother abandoned him at birth. They were from this band really popular in Singapore in the past, called Speedway. He was adopted by a Singaporean family, and lets face it, this guy was Eurasian, he looks like a white boy. So he spent his entire life in Asia ostracized. I knew exactly how he felt.

    He took a Baileys every night because it was "mother's milk". That guy, was so fat. So fat, that he hated going out of doors. He told me that he loved food, wasn't gonna give him up. Dying on food was the best thing that could ever happen to him. The world was just f%^&* up, that was what we could accept. All we can do is just sit and complain about it.

    One day I met one girl, an INTP in uni, we were in the same project groups for 3 subjects out of 4!

    She's a Christian girl, I told her directly I hated Christians. She was the first one that didn't ever tell me anything about God or church. To date, we're still best friends. I hated her at first night, but she thought I was an INTP and the next thing you knew it, we were fiercely arguing. It broke the ice, and we became friends.

    Shes a very intelligent and beautiful girl, the kind that everyone envies. I gotta say that I was actually impressed by her, I actually thought she was hot ... (Today I can't believe I thought of her in such disrespect once, our friendship means so much to me to date) I scrutinized her, and I noticed she never sweared. She was very elegant, a great photographer, looked great in trench coats, just silent, mysterious and really cool. I on the other hand, was always loud, rude and crude.. and I I wanted to be like her. And I always had problems! She never seemed to have any - and I thought she was so cool because of that. She was so wise, and I couldnt understand why.

    One day I told her. You can't be Christian man. They're all stupid. They like Finding Nemo and Disney lame shit shows. And all she did was just reply: well I'm not like that am I. So I told her, if every Christians like you, then maybe more of the world will believe.

    I got kinda addicted to World of Warcraft when it first came out - i like violent video games. But my laptop was down, and as I am pretty wealthy (now don't be shocked), the min I wanted to play World of Warcraft, I decided I wanted to buy a computer that very day. But I had uni, and I had to go to tutorial cause I skipped 3 (international students are supposed to have 85% attendance rate). Now I just went to class, and it was so boring. I turned to this punk next to me and said " I need a new computer".

    The punk turned back to me and he said "Hey. I build them". I said...what?
    So we discussed during class. He showed me a website with all sorts of computer parts. He said we could go after uni - he told me to grab $1300 and we'd go to East Malvern, a suburb pretty far out from Melbourne city. And so that happened. I told that guy if he messed up, he built me a new computer. And he agreed.

    Now it was on the long tram ride that I noticed something different about this guy. He was a punk, but he didnt swear much. He was calm, cool and quiet. He was like ... the angel Gabriel or something, despite how he looked. I could almost picture a sword in his hand, except he wouldn't swing it cause he was "dangerous but gentle". Not unlike the INTP girl I mentioned. I began to wonder why he reminded me of that girl so much, so I actually asked him: You're a Christian right. And he looked surprised. He was like...yea. And he said: I'm from Planetshakers church. ever heard of it. I said no, but it sounds punky. He was like: yup. we play rock music.

    Now I wasnt very interested so he didn't talk about it again. We fixed up the computer for 3 hours at his house (yes i went to a stranger's house! i was that reckless) and that night, I took home my new computer. I spent the next 2 weeks enjoying it, but it ran into a blue screen error.

    So I called up that guy and he came over to fix it. Now the funny part was, I was abit drunk before he came in. So when he did come in, I just started ranting. And then I started telling him about my INTP female friend. And then I said: She...she's like perfect. I can't explain. And the only clever Christian i know. Then that guy, who was fixing my comp just laughed and said: Go to church!

    and i was fricking drunk! i typed on MSN to the INTP girl: Hey I'll go to church with you it sounds fun. And she said: what? are you sure?

    I was like: uh huh.
    She was like:'re the antichrist.
    I was: no i'm not (and i gave alot of reasons why i was a good moral citizen! i cant remember what i said)
    She was like: but you have to wake early tomorrow ok.

    And then when I woke up the next morning, I couldn't believe it when she called me and told me to get ready. So I went with her to a church along Carlton (I'll keep the identity confidential) And I tell you I watched way too much Shunji Iwai. I kept imagining someone was gonna bomb that church. I looked about. Nice stain glass windows.. we can use it in a movie with blood spattered all over it...

    Let's just say that after that, my INTP friend introduced me to her group of friends and I got really irritated (and surprised she would hang out with a group of people like that). But we were sitting near the front so I couldn't leave church, plus I still had abit of a hangover.

    The message from Ecclesiastes:
    "Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless." What does man gain from all his labor at which he toils under the sun? Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever. The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises....

    All things are wearisome, more than one can say. The eye never has enough of seeing, nor the ear its fill of hearing. There is no remembrance of men of old, and even those who are yet to come will not be remembered by those who follow."

    I got really really angry hearing this, I had to say I drank even more than night. I didn't want to think about it anymore. I said no more of this church bullshit. The next week, I went on a date with one of my classmates from uni.

    We went to a bar, and drank. Then we ended up going to his hostel room, and he offered me a cigarette. I realized it wasn't just a cigarette, it was weed. I was about to smoke it, when I remembered it gave you really bad breath. We were really drunk, he more than me, and I was still kinda sober. And then he just asked me if I thought he was hot. And you know what...I knew what was coming next but.. somehow... the sermon mentioned something vaguely about us being worth more to God than to men. I didn't quite believe it then, but I just thought that hey - I'm worth more than some sex doll. So I actually turned him down quite flatly. You know what, we ended up spending the rest of the night watching Dave Chapelle, nothing else.

    Next week, and I felt like an old time low. I stayed on the 5th floor back then, and I actually took the lift to the 10th floor of my apartment to see if I could jump off. Someone had killed himself in that exact spot last year, so I looked about the top floor. I looked down from there .... then I remembered the article I wrote in the past about this one girl who killed herself cos she had been bullied. Then I actually sneered and thought: shit I gotta die in a way I don't look like a pile of meat. I gotta make sure I'm really dead. And then I thought right there and then: if I do die, what's the point. I'll never think again. I may as well live to experience some new things.

    I had experienced all sorts of...interesting relationships...some of which I will not talk about because...few humans have tried it, I'll put it simply. And my last date felt so empty, even though my uni friend was a pretty handsome guy. i was so tired of everything, and most of all, i was tired of myself. i told lies all the time. i was always afraid of everything - looking good meant the world to me, yet i always pretended to be confident and posh. i was always in black tank tops or halters back then. (and never the glasses!) my religion, quite literally, was Shunji Iwai, everything he said I took as the truth. And all I could see from his movies was that the world sucks, the end. That's what all his movies are about. No other answers.

    but since church was the interesting experience to me, (but it made me think and i hated it) i said i'd give it one more shot.

    Now...that church sermon..... omg. it wasnt even a charismatic church. but... in the bible study group i was in... there was one elderly man sitting near me... i couldnt look at him. i couldnt look into his eyes. he was... he felt like an angel..and i tell you angels carry swords. they're powerful, but gentle. and i couldnt believe it, i was looking down at the floorboards. i had no idea why, but i could feel something about him - so clean and such light that i felt like he could see everything i had ever done. he paid me no attention most of the time, he was happily chatting to others. yet i was afraid he could see everything i really was. when he did turn to greet me i actually stammered and i couldnt think of what to say.

    all i wanted to do, i decided when i got home, was to come clean. my own actions made my ownself feel small and detestable. i felt like i couldnt confess to anyone what i had done before.

    so next week, the INTP girl and me had to finish a project. we worked late in the night till 3am at school, then we went to my place so we could both shower and she could stay over for one night. but...i just came to her and said: hey. and i looked down on the ground. my cheeks were burning.

    i said.. you know... ecclesiastes. wisdom is meaningless. pleasures are meaningless. advancement is meaningless. work is meaningless. ashes to ashes and dust to dust. its all true. and we sat and talked till the morning. she was the first person i ever told about my life. i had never had a best friend before, and it took me a long time to even say... i think.. i have alot of pride. and then we started talking about God. I said i wish i knew he was real. She said yea i dont even know if i'll get into heaven. that was our conversation.

    the next day, the girls from Carlton called me and asked me if i wanted to plan the morning exercise for a church camp coming up. I really had nothing else to do in July, so i went cause i was curious what people did on church camp. the problem was... no one told me the morning exercise was actually a DANCE!

    Now i tell you, when i went to church camp i still acted like a... I sat next to the only cute guy i could find in the bus and i was like.. flirting with him. (he just thought i was being friendly, he's a nice guy and today, we're good lan gaming friends) when we went for camp i didnt want to be part of the activities, it was there that i cursed and swore and called it lame shits. But no matter what I did, no one refuted me, and I was shocked by that. So I felt embarassed, and I gave up swearing.

    And here's the story, as it was on my blog:
    [url=]The solution

  9. #289


    By the time the camp ended, I realized it was probably the most fun 4 days I'd ever had in my life. On the last day I bought the camp t-shirt, (the first unsexy shirt I've ever worn), and I couldn't believe it.. but I actually started liking this group of idiots. We did things I thought were "conventionally stupid teenager drivel": chased after chickens, flying fox, jumping on trampolines. I couldnt quite understand why these people had such enthusiasm and fascination for everything about them, but they invited me to join them, I gingerly did, and found that it was fun.

    Now I started doing some bible reading of my own. Now I liked those people at that Carlton church, but the sermons bored me to sleep. So I decided, just once to visit Planetshakers. One day, I called up the guy who had built me that computer, to treat him to dinner. I told him I'd like to visit Planetshakers.

    Now I tell you............ no one had ever known about my life. But during the first Planetshakers bible study we had, I felt something. The presence and power, and...this radiant light. Most of the people there, there was a strength about them. They didn't know anything about my life, but when they closed the meeting asking: who'd like to be prayed for... I raised my hands. You know what? Only the women went forward to pray for me. They all knew.. .and could feel ... that I was gripped by something demonic.

    Lust is a spiritual force, and it's written in the bible. They prayed for me, and no one in the room actually said aloud what it was but they knew, and I knew too! I cried so hard, I cried as if no one was there watching me because I knew I was free. This was only the very first thing to get broken off from my life. I knew that there was a God then, and someone who healed the soul. I could feel a love like I had never known before in my life. And then I knew the bible verse that was true... that we were made in His likeness. I was not just some good looking girl to boys on the street. I was made for so much more.

    It was a very difficult road this past half a year. In the beginning, I couldn't understand why it was that when I went home and didn't attend bible study for a while, it was as if God wasn't there. He'd disappeared from my life. It was one of my initial struggles. But gradually, I've come to know him.

    And then, I saw miracles happening. I saw crippled men stand up in church. And more and more things happened, and happened. When mum came to visit me in Melbourne, I gave her a hug without thinking. I had changed so much I had almost forgotten my past...and you know what.. mum actually cried..

    She said "You've never hugged me before. What made you change". That's my testimony folks. I have sooo soo many stories. So much to thank God for. Oh, I'm such a fool for him, but better to be that than what I was 2 years ago... the girl who wanted to jump of Milano apartments. The boy I once dated.. is also a member of Planetshakers now. He's stopped taking weed, we've come to genuinely know each other and become friends, no more fakeness, and oh, the jokes we have with one another nowadays - praise God that i might have hated him, but now i know he's fricking hilarious!

    and oh my, so many members of our church still sport tattoos (having been ex-gang members). when we sit together we look like a big bunch of punks and some people are afraid of us! but then we pull out our bibles and smile...

  10. #290
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007


    Okay sasssa, I see. You just want a guaruntee that it's The Right One before you begin. Like buying a load of consumer magazines and reading all the reviews and getting the official recommendations before buying a vacuum cleaner, so you know you buy The Right One. Far be it from you to figure anything out for yourself, eh? Must... have... instructions... How very ISTJ

    It seems like you're asking the people here to give you an Official Recommendation, on an unimpeachable authority that they can prove to you here and now, which satisifies you 100% and provides you with the instructions you need to proceed. But that's just not gonna happen, it's just not possible. All people can do is say what works for them, shrug, and say "try it if you like..." Y'know, it's not really our fault that what satisfies us doesn't seem to satisfy you. I'm really not sure what you want out of this... you've said "all I've been trying to say is..." well, there, you've said that now, so now what do you want? What response do you want? Why are you so dissatisfied with the responses you've got? Why did you expect anything else? Why are you still banging on about it, if you've already made your point? Is it part of the plan that everyone has to agree with you before you're satisfied? Cos that can just go on forever...

    Sorry, haha... if I ever work out how to address that viewpoint, or how to explain how it never factors into my life and yet I survive all the same and don't seem to be drowned in Wrong Ones, and why the possibility that I might have got it wrong doesn't bother me... then I'll let you know. I have my very own ISTJ best friend to work with, and I haven't yet managed to get him to see yet either a) what my POV is or b) how and why it can work, c) how his POV can be self-sabotaging or d) why my attempt to do so is not an attack against him or an assertion that I'm better than him.

    The failing is mine... I'm working on trying to find a way to come onto his level, but it's as alien to me as mine is to him. It'd help if he made a smidgin of effort to meet me half way... but failing that, I'll keep trying. It's been almost ten years, but as I say, if I do make any progress, I'll let you know and see if it helps you at all.

    <--- consider the possibility that right now you're not the only one who's feeling this emotion...

    As it is however, I have a trip to Italy to pack for. Of course, I don't know if the plane I'm catching is the right one, and perhaps the town I'm going to is the wrong one too, but if I get home again and learn there was a much better town I could've gone to, I'll try not to commit suicide or anything

    I'll leave you to your existential turmoil
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

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