Certainty and doubts

[Lark]

Whatever your views on spirituality or philosophy happen to be have you ever experienced any major doubts? Why? What happened then and did you find a way out or ever experience a return to the certainty you once had?

 

[gromit]

Doubt has pretty much been the state of my existence for as long as I can remember. That doesn't prevent me from seeing the good in most things though...

 

[Take Five]

i have persistent and recurring severe doubt. i just soldier on and decide to stick to my gut and what i put my trust in. occasionally there are moments when i am not doubting, but i think the doubt is more covered up than actually disappearing.

 

[Arthur Schopenhauer]

Lately, all of my doubt has led to growth.

 

[Polaris]

Whatever your views on spirituality or philosophy happen to be have you ever experienced any major doubts? Why? What happened then and did you find a way out or ever experience a return to the certainty you once had?

The only time I ever experienced any major doubts, spiritually or philosophically, was in my early adolescence when I was still a Christian. At that point in my life, I started to find the Bible difficult to believe in, much for the same reasons that a child starts doubting the existence of Santa Clause; for no particular reason--I had no rationale, nor did I have any evidence--Christianity started to seem naive to me. In spite of this, I did try to carry my faith for awhile; the fact that it was waning did not reduce its hold over me. Nevertheless, I eventually slipped into atheism; I have no idea when it happened, because it seems to have been a process rather than an event, and its one consequence was to endow me with a sense of freedom to choose my own truth.

Since then, my views have continued to evolve--I started out with a moral and scientific rationalism that I now consider shalllow--but I have never experienced any doubt, because I no longer have an external authority telling me to remain set in my ways; I'm allowed to flex my views according to whatever needs or desires arise, and the more I cultivate this flexibility of viewpoint, the less conceivable doubt becomes.

 

[Robopop]

When I was in my late teens, I began to doubt my christian upbringing. It started with me looking on a atheist website which was about the origins for belief in the human soul. I happened to look at this website out of sheer curiosity, but even then I resisted some of the things that was written on it.

It basically reduced the soul to a cognitive ghost, and it gave a more reasonable, scientific explaination for how the brain works. This lead me to question the very belief in the afterlife, because to me, if the soul does not exist, there is no place for an afterlife. Then God came next, this was a belief harder to shake off and I spent the next two to three months exploring other ideas like buddism and deism.

After much introspection and reflection I concluded to myself that the personal God I grew up to believe in probably does not exist and I fully embraced atheism. My mind was expanding so much at this time, I actually call this period of my life my "enlightenment" and grew to heavily appreciate science and free thought. One of the works that still inspires me to this day is Bertrand Russell's why I am not a christian, it was a perfect, logical manifesto of all my thoughts on God, atheism, theism, and agnosticism.

I began becoming outspoken in my atheism when I was in high school and this made me a target. I almost got jumped at lunchtime by a bunch of thugs at my school, they all gathered around me, questioning why I would even fathom an existence without God. I also had a biology teacher who openly promoted her creationist views on her students. She would ask each individual student whether they believed in evolution or the biblical account of creation. I thought to myself how onesided this was, trying to embarrass students in front of the class that didn't confrom to her(and the majority's) belief system.
But even through all this, I still speculate on the existence of God, ultimate reality or whatever. I try to be open-minded but still skeptical on the ultimate nature of the universe. I believe the big bang happened, but I don't pretend to have knowledge of the cause of the universe. I am ignorant and I accept that, as all of humanity is in a very small place in the cosmos. I now consider myself a agnostic atheist and even though
I don't believe in God, I still have child-like wonder for the vast, endless universe we live in. So I still have my doubts about everything, including atheism and science itself. It is important to have healthy skepticism and re-examine your own beliefs.

 

[kevrawlings]

Robopop, as a Christian, I encourage you to steadfastly hold on to that child-wonder that you spoke of.

Here is a pertinent piece of scripture, "I praise you, father, Lord of Heaven and Earth. For you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. For it was your good pleasure to do so."

As for the notion of the soul as a "cognitive ghost". Chew on this, "People don't have souls. People are souls; people have bodies." - C.S. Lewis

I'm sorry that those individuals jumped you at lunch. There's a lot of bad Christians out there . . . trust ME on this, as I can be a totally prideful, selfish dick sometimes.

As I can see you're an introspective, thoughtfully analytical type, an INTP, I highly encourage you to read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. If ever there was an empiricism to morality, C.S. Lewis lucidly details it. He uses pure logic to present his case.

Here is a link to the full text: Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

I was born to an atheist mother of High Anglican family and a (very) Liberal Jewish father from an Jewish Orthodox family (who were very upset when he married a "shiksa" (sp)), and who used to eat bacon, pork and shellfish and flippantly say he blessed it and called it chicken.

I was neither baptised or bat mitzvahed. I attended Saturday School, Sunday School and from 5yo, much to my parents horror, would invite in Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses to hear their stories, and later talk to those of the Muslim, Taoist and Buddhist faiths.

I read about Buddhism, Taoism, Islam and more but knew without doubt that there was something other and greater. Something so vast that the Bible, Koran, Talmud and other books could only hint at its vastness and that Christ and Mohammed and the Buddah all knew this and created frameworks with which mankind could attempt to understand.

I believe that our conscience and soul are one with that power that is neither judgmental, nor jealous, nor vindictive but benign providing us with the power to be and affect what we choose. Most of us know when we are doing things that are not right except for those who by some sort of damage have no conscience.

There is evidence of this benign order of things in so many ways. In what happens to us and our consciousness when we pray or meditate, in the existence of Phi and its application of symmetry from the vast shapings of galaxies to the shaping of strands of DNA and our perception of balance and beauty.

There is evidence in that all major faiths believe in the power of communal prayer or focused consciousness, where on a large scale the change in transmission of subatomic electrical signals has been noted to have significantly higher output when compared to the norm.

My problem is man's interpretation of that vast power and the dastardly deeds done in the name of that interpretation, the exclusivity and preferences insisted upon, the murders and wars started in the name of something that man has tried to encapsulate because its vastness is incomprehensible.

We are nothing and yet we are everything - energy doesn't just disappear it is just re-formed and expressed in a different way - we are the ones that choose to make it what it is and how it is expressed.

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

Robopop, as a Christian, I encourage you to steadfastly hold on to that child-wonder that you spoke of.

I agree - s a person of faith I would encourage everyone to do the same

 

[Amethyst]

I used to doubt many things, but a lot of times I reason myself out of those doubts, like is there a God etc. I went through so much reasoning and many sleepless nights about the existences of a higher being. I doubt things won't be good for me, but I always have hope somehow. Many times I doubt things will be good at all, and assume worst case scenarios. Whenever that happens, they actually end up worse than I could imagine, which has led me to not really doubt anything anymore. It's an experience I can learn upon, and no matter how much I might doubt myself and what could be, it doesn't matter. It's the only thing holding me back, the only thing to blame if I mess up. I don't need it anymore (at least big doubts, little doubts are unavoidable).

 

[LeafAndSky]

Whatever your views on spirituality or philosophy happen to be have you ever experienced any major doubts? Why? What happened then and did you find a way out or ever experience a return to the certainty you once had?

I never returned to the certainty I once had. My "views on spirituality or philosophy" have gone through approx. four major changes and many minor ones.

Major doubts can be looked at as a kind of metamorphosis. Each time, you arrive at a bigger picture or viewpoint. The bigger the picture, the less likely that a clash with another view or some underlying incongruity will poke holes in it. So the question is, what is the biggest picture possible? Or perhaps, what is the biggest picture that seems right at the present time?

I hope this helps, Lark, or that you find other help in this thread if you're experiencing doubts. Doubts can be difficult to work through, because the process can involve leaving intellectual safety, emotional familiarity, or even family or social groups (or being ousted by them).

 

[Helios]

Whatever your views on spirituality or philosophy happen to be have you ever experienced any major doubts? Why? What happened then and did you find a way out or ever experience a return to the certainty you once had?

What sort of doubts?

 

[Lark]

I was meaning in the broadest possible philosophical or spiritual sense Helios, for a believer in an afterlife and God it could be having those things challenged, for a non-believer who does not believe in an after life or God and feels fine, believing that their self-belief suffices it could be having that challenged.

At the time I decided to post the thread someone I know had been talking to me about a sociology lecturer who never properly recovered following the 1989 collapse of the USSR, which to me was something I couldnt relate to but perfectly illustrated the sort of crisis I had in mind.

 

[Halla74]

The worst moment of doubt I have ever experienced was at a given point in time to doubt myself. This happened once in my life, for a fleeting moment, but so help me it was the WORST moment I have ever lived and I want nothing to do with anything similar agains so long as I exist.

No one but me has my best interest at heart, knows the total scope from which I approach a given situation from, or has the best interest of those dear to me at heart like I do.

Do not ever doubt yourself. If you do, you have lost your most loyal advocate. Any situation that does not cause your ultimate demise can be maneuvered around. This is not a hallpass to be a fucking idiot, but it is an important reminder to cut yourself some slack from time to time.