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is false hope better than no hope?

False hope or no hope?


  • Total voters
    9

Rainne

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Not a big fan of false hope, but it's better than no hope lol
 

Arthur Schopenhauer

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I have no idea which neural structure is responsible for religion, but that it is genetically determined can be deduced from the fact that all cultures, no matter how isolated, have some sort of deity and spiritual belief (and with rather similar structures). Richard Dawkins and Matthew Alper have both presented the hypothesis, although Dawkins myopically attributes religion to a misfiring neural mechanism, rather than its correct functioning.

:doh: I really hate correcting people about these simple things.

a) If religion is genetically determined, then are Atheism, Marxism, Nihilism, etc., ideaologies, preprogrammed into the human mind? I suppose that one could be born knowing the entire KJV by heart, or even, Das Kapital.

b) YouTube - Dawkins: Did Religion Have an Evolutionary Value?

c) Dawkins seems to attribute it to human naivety rather than human predisposition. In fact, he's quite opposed to the idea. He states that religion was created by and used as a tool for the actual genetic and, therefore, evolutionary tendencies that are ingrained into mankind.

Religion is not a product of the human genome, in the sense that religion lies within it; a need for unification, order, stupidity and naivety are though.
 

ragashree

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I'm assuming you're referring to children too young to be capable of taking a position on the issue. I wouldn't say the lack of capacity to believe implies disbelief. You could equally well atribute a number of other philosophical outlooks to infancy - nihilism, for instance, on the grounds that they do not actively believe in anything in particular.

I have no idea which neural structure is responsible for religion, but that it is genetically determined can be deduced from the fact that all cultures, no matter how isolated, have some sort of deity and spiritual belief (and with rather similar structures). Richard Dawkins and Matthew Alper have both presented the hypothesis, although Dawkins myopically attributes religion to a misfiring neural mechanism, rather than its correct functioning.

That's not deductive, but inductive reasoning, and not particularly strong inductive reasoning either. It says nothing about the wiring of the brain, which it does not even examine, but makes the sweeping assumption that a range of similar social behaviours must stem from a specific neurological component which can be explained in terms of genetic heredity. It's highly speculative, establishes no causal connection, and proves absolutely nothing in real terms.

If Dawkins is talking about the function of the temporal lobe, and that stimulation and disorders of it can evoke religious-type subjective experiences, he is at least standing on solid ground, because the phenomenon is well attested. And it's not often you'll find me agreeing with Dawkins.
 

Arthur Schopenhauer

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I'm assuming you're referring to children too young to be capable of taking a position on the issue. I wouldn't say the lack of capacity to believe implies disbelief. You could equally well atribute a number of other philosophical outlooks to infancy - nihilism, for instance, on the grounds that they do not actively believe in anything in particular.

Athiesm, as defined by wonkipoodia:

Atheism is commonly described as the position that there are no deities.[1][...] A broader meaning is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3]

You are under the assumption that in order for one to be an Atheist, he must know of a god and must decidedly reject that entity.

Incorrect.
 

Lark

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To be truthful fale hope, once its known to be false, is no hope and any hope needs to be tested to ensure its not falsehood.

The neurology of belief and religion interests me, the positions of Dawkins have shaken my beliefs up a bit, frankly terrified me lately. There was a time that I could have been certain and taken consolation that the emergence of similar belief systems in a variety of seperate and independent cultural contexts invalidated his memetics/brain virus thesis but I'm not sure, developmental psychology suggests that the symbolic projects could be the consequence of universal conscious and unconscious attachment needs.

There is also the possibility that religions emerged from the auditory and other hallucinations consequent from the dominance of brain functions in another epoch that no longer dominate but occasionally, anomalously, reassert themselves manifesting as UFO sightings, spiritualism, mediumship, hauntings or possessions.

Guys you've pretty much no idea of the whole fear and trembling this loss of certainty has caused me, no one knows either and there's hardly anyone to discuss it with. People fit neatly into the self-assured and angry athiest camps so neatly.
 

lowtech redneck

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It depends on the consequences of any particular false hope; telling a little girl that crystals or prayer will cure her cancer will cause her disappointment as reality slowly demonstrates otherwise, while telling her that she will go to heaven and wait for her parents with her deceased grandma will alleviate her suffering.
 
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lowtech redneck

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It is? :huh:

In which neuroanatomical substructure does the religious principle reside again?

Whichever one causes us to think that the inevitable deaths of ourselves and our loved ones is a buzzkill, in conjunction with our imaginations. Aleksei's post might not be well-supported as a declarative statement, but it makes great intuitive sense (as a generality, of course) to say that spiritual wants seem to be hardwired into the human mind.
 

ragashree

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Athiesm, as defined by wonkipoodia:

You are under the assumption that in order for one to be an Atheist, he must know of a god and must decidedly reject that entity.

Quote:
Atheism is commonly described as the position that there are no deities.[1][...] A broader meaning is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3]

Incorrect.

Mr Wonky Poodle, please don't prove your wonkerishness by posting questionable definitions of irrelevant abstract nouns in order to shore up an already weak ideological point. The child may be in a state of non-belief, but this does not make the child an atheist by any reasonable and generally accepted current definition. If you're having trouble with this concept, try finding a proper dictionary, and look up the word "atheist", which whether you like it or not defines a person who has made an active choice not to believe.

Further, it's purposeless attributing a positive significance to simple incapacity. You might equally well say that all flies are atheists, or all planets are atheists, as they do not have (because they are not capable of posessing) religious faith, just as a baby is not, at least so far as we know.
 

Salomé

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I believe in false hope.
Also that children are the future.
 

Feops

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False hope is a terrible crime against ourselves. With it we weave elaborate illusions that grow to define our very way of life, and when illusions define our lives we become irritated when these illusions fail when forced to face reality. Such are the clashes between science and religion.

I'm all for the power of positive thinking but I don't see a need to mask it in lies. There are plenty of real and substantive reasons to carry hope.
 

Feops

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In most any situation that can be overcome with an injection of false hope, one could likewise power through with determination.

Or in a situation that could be eased (but not repaired) with false hope, one could likewise come to peace with the circumstances without deciet of the reality.
 

lowtech redneck

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Or in a situation that could be eased (but not repaired) with false hope, one could likewise come to peace with the circumstances without deciet of the reality.

Its highly doubtful that most people could "come to peace" with a loved one (including themselves) dying; they can eventually numb themselves to the resulting anguish and despair, and thereby move on, but that provides less aggregate utility (generally speaking), than engaging in the type of false hope I mentioned earlier.
 

Salomé

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People's lives are entirely defined by illusions. And hope is never based on truth. Certainty is based on truth. And even truth is an illusion. Hope is simply a positive attitude towards the unknown. In that sense false hope has as much value as any other kind.
 

Feops

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Its highly doubtful that most people could "come to peace" with a loved one (including themselves) dying; they can eventually numb themselves to the resulting anguish and despair, and thereby move on, but that provides less aggregate utility (generally speaking), than engaging in the type of false hope I mentioned earlier.

It is possible to accept the reality of life and death without emotionally hardening oneself to an insensitive state. It may not be easy, but I never claimed it would be.
 

Arthur Schopenhauer

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Mr Wonky Poodle, please don't prove your wonkerishness by posting questionable definitions of irrelevant abstract nouns in order to shore up an already weak ideological point. The child may be in a state of non-belief, but this does not make the child an atheist by any reasonable and generally accepted current definition. If you're having trouble with this concept, try finding a proper dictionary, and look up the word "atheist", which whether you like it or not defines a person who has made an active choice not to believe.

No. There is both disbelief and lack of belief.

Further, it's purposeless attributing a positive significance to simple incapacity. You might equally well say that all flies are atheists, or all planets are atheists, as they do not have (because they are not capable of posessing) religious faith, just as a baby is not, at least so far as we know.

No.

Why are 'we' personifying rocks?
 

disregard

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I don't believe there is such a thing as false hope. Hope is hope. It doesn't change the future, but it changes your response to what is. It changes the way you feel, too. There is nothing false about that.
 

Arthur Schopenhauer

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Finally, I have the time to write a real response to this.

Further, it's purposeless attributing a positive significance to simple incapacity. You might equally well say that all flies are atheists, or all planets are atheists, as they do not have (because they are not capable of posessing) religious faith, just as a baby is not, at least so far as we know.

Yes, you could say that about flies or trees, or a picture of Jesus, as they lack belief in a god. Personally, I find far more interesting to split the human body, preferably one of someone who is religious, down into it's tiny-bits, e.g., white and red blood cells, skin cells, etc., so as to call all those separately functioning peices, atheist.

How does that strike you?

- With Love, Mr. Poodle Doodle Noodle.
 

lowtech redneck

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It is possible to accept the reality of life and death without emotionally hardening oneself to an insensitive state. It may not be easy, but I never claimed it would be.

The issue is not whether it would be easy, but whether its the most utilitarian course of action.
 
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