why doesn't God love me?

[miss fortune]

Victor... loving all doesn't mean loving nothing... I love all flavors of tea that I've ever tried... it doesn't mean that I don't love them

Peguy... does this mean that there shall be lines like "now, bend over and receive your naughty sacriments! ?

 

[Iriohm]

RE: whatever

To start off- I'm not intentionally anti-religious by any means- I grew up with a mother who loved to go to church and has the pleasant and gentle view that God's there for us whether we want him to be or not, and he loves us all equally. This should have been a good grounds to feeling SOMETHING towards God, I'd think, but apparently it wasn't

To make it more confusing, I even spent 4 months living in a convent as part of a room and board package once... they were cool nuns, they loved humanity in general and had such an optimistic and non-judgemental attitude towards it. They really DID put their faith into good works to help the poor, the sick, the un-spoken... even if the people in question weren't even Christian- they were wonderful people, but I still didn't FEEL anything

I've gone to various different types of churches- I've been to temple several times, I have gone to mosque on several occasions, to a few pagan celebrations... I've studied Hinduism, Buddhism and have even attended a Ba'hai service and still I don't feel that I fit...

What's up with this God fellow and why does he taunt me so?

I would LOVE to beleive in something, have a community of a sort and have that feeling of safety, calm and acceptance that people can find with religion but it just doesn't click. Part of this is because I feel that who I AM doesn't quite jive correctly with a lot of religions- for some I'm too exhuberant and fascinated by sensory experiences, for some I am an evil sinful harlot... and I can't stand the idea of a religion that would send anyone to Hell... if I couldn't do it I sure as hell don't want to beleive in a God who would

And it's not that I'm an atheist either- I beleive in something- just the thought that I can't quite put my finger on it really bugs me... religions fascinate me, I love reading about them, but I can't manage to fit in

What sort of sick bastard of a deity would do that to a person?

*inclines head while making a complicated "hand-clasping" gesture*

I salute you, fellow wanderer, and answer with a collection of opinions I've developed on the generalness of this increasingly lengthy conversation:

1. I am of the belief that we stick ourselves in Hell. The ties connecting the soul to the body are severed upon death, which means pretty much everything from that point onwards defaults to a matter of the mind. Hell itself has been described as the one place "God" doesn't look, and that makes sense, so turning away from him/her is quite literally putting yourself in that place. Of course, once you turn away, I expect it's quite difficult to turn back without outside help.

2. "God" is the supreme creator of the WSOGMM (look it up), and thus must remain at least partially neutral. Strife promotes growth, after all; what would be the point if he/she just stepped in and righted all wrongs? Having said that, I will also point out the fallacy of "happily ever after": they don't exist, because the story never ends. It's simply the rest period between the triumph of good over evil, and when evil inevitably re-rises.

3. The universe is, technically, a cold and unfeeling place, built on rules that care little for the individual. Luckily, the word "technically" implies looking at something from a thinkers perspective, with logic alone, and, while that works well for the science of things, the universe is too simply too large and too complicated for it. It's like looking for a large, invisible, dome-shaped structure by looking everywhere it's not. You walk round and round, exploring every inch of the pathway surrounding it, and find nothing, but if you do that enough, you eventually get a sense of something missing from the picture; just barely tangible, but definitely there.

All in all, my advice is to not worry about it, and to not force it. Like the universe, over-thinking things makes them harder to feel, and Belief is definitely on Feeler ground.

Such is my opinion, none of it strictly canon. Make of it what you will.

 

[miss fortune]

I overthink anything and everything if it crosses my mind... this is why I so desperatly want mental peace and quiet- my brain is EVIL

of course what sort of omniscient being wouldn't want to just sit back and watch a grand social experiment... I remember the Futurama episode Godfellas, where Bender is god of a bunch of tiny creatures that live on him in space- by directly interfering or ignoring things, in turn, he's a complete and total failure... he then meets god, who tells him that he's given up on preforming miracles, because direct intervention fails, and that if you do interfere, do it with a light touch, like safe cracking or insurance fraud... I kind of liked the quote "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"... sorry, that somehow reminded me

 

[Beorn]

Well as the the resident reformed christian I'll throw my two cents on the journey of faith.

First of all I think you are right to reject forms of religion that do not permit questioning. Many forms of Christianity look down on questioning. While ultimately I think a Christian should submit themselves to the scriptures, determining what they say should be through a rational process. Faith may take a leap of belief, but it must be reasonable and should not be inconsistent. The reformed tradition is a reasonable faith that ought to promote both faith and questioning. It believes that although we can know much of the truth we can never arrive at a total understanding of the truth, thus the mantra of the reformation is "sempre reformanda" which means "always reforming."

You speak a lot about your feelings in your search. I believe feelings and experience are unhelpful in the search for truth. They are way too subjective and unreliable. For instance let's take the belief that God is sovereign, that he is in control of the universe. In my life there are times when I'm more likely to believe that and times I'm less likely to believe it. When I see the images of an earthquake ravaged Haiti my feelings of sadness make it difficult to believe that God would ultimately be responsible for that happening... and yet those feelings have nothing to do with the truth of the matter.

Likewise, last summer I was turned down for a Visa within 3 days of having to depart for europe. It seemed my trip would be impossible, but as things turned out after a series of remarkable events I received my visa within an hour of my flight departing. After that I certainly felt like God was in control. But, again my feelings on the matter have absolutely nothing to do with the truth of whether God is sovereign or not. It could have just been a series of coincidences that led to my good fate.

The point of all this is that I believe there is a divine order. I believe that we must discover the truth first and if we cling to the truth and rely on it then the feelings will follow.

 

[miss fortune]

I can't beleive something that I don't feel anything towards anything more than I can make out with someone I feel nothing for... it just feels empty

 

[Beorn]

I can't beleive something that I don't feel anything towards anything more than I can make out with someone I feel nothing for... it just feels empty

I'm not saying feelings are not important... they're critical. I'm just saying they're secondary to reason when determining the truth.

If I didn't feel anything ever when I went to church then you can bet I would have stopped attending a long time ago. But, I don't make the decision to attend because it feels right.

 

[swordpath]

We created God.

 

[miss fortune]

Beefeater- yeah, I know what seems perfectly logical to me in some aspects, it's just that I can't figure out where that fits in a way... I just haven't been to any church of any sort that really *clicked* in a way. I left the church I was raised in because it didn't resonate in a way

beat- social construct or not, I want to beleive!

 

[Mole]

Non Serviam and Sempre Reformanda

the mantra of the reformation is "sempre reformanda" which means "always reforming."

Sound like the mantra of Mao Tse Tung and his permanent revolution.

And look at the results - Mao decimated his own people in the interests of permanent revolution, and the Reformation produced a thousand different sects in the name of God.

And we all know that reorganisation is the mantra of an organisation when it is not having any organisation.

And permanent Reformation is what the dictator of heaven uses to keep us busy.

And the business of the Reformation is business, as we see in the book, "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism", by Max Weber.

No, non serviam (I will not serve) is the only moral response to sempre reformanda.

Servility is the morality of slaves.

 

[miss fortune]

now I guess I should toss out the little red book as a religious aspiration...

 

[A window to the soul]

God's been there, even when it didn't feel like it.

 

[miss fortune]

I WANT that feeling of security!

 

[A window to the soul]

I WANT that feeling of security!

It's hard to explain. I ventured out, a girl alone thousands of miles from my Texas home and faced my fears to work in the Silicon Valley. Those were some tough times right out of college and I remember standing on a beach at night in San Francisco and crying out to God if he could hear me and asking why he abandoned me there. I was feeling really overwhelmed, out of my Texas element, and alone. The wind off the Pacific ocean was so loud that even though I was shouting, I couldn't even hear my own words. At the time, I didn't believe that God was hearing them either. Looking back now I see how God was with me the whole time, he was right there and he carried me through it. I believe there was something greater than me that can't be explained that took me out of a few valleys. I survived my adventures, I'm stronger, wiser, and more successful because of it. This is why I say God has never failed me; it stands the test of time for me.

 

[miss fortune]

I'm happy for you... and a little envious as well... a move can be a challenge. I don't think I'll ever feel as at home in the city

 

[uumlau]

I WANT that feeling of security!

It's not a feeling of security, really. It's more aptly described as confidence. "Faith" would be the proper word, but people have too many different meanings for that word to precisely convey what I mean.

With faith, you will still be scared, you will still be worried, and you will certainly be uncertain ... but there will be something deep inside you that keeps you from giving up, that helps you live one day at a time, that will carry you through the darkest hours of the night.

It's not an "opiate of the masses" as one famous quote suggests. It is not a narcotic that lets you ignore the evils of the world. Rather, it is a deep spiritual strength that lets you face those evils head on.

No, if you search for "security," you will not find what you seek.

 

[Beorn]

God's been there, even when it didn't feel like it.

I think you summed up what I was trying to say much more succinctly.

 

[LeafAndSky]

perfectgirl wrote: "God's been there, even when it didn't feel like it."

then whatever wrote: I WANT that feeling of security!

---------

uumlau called it faith, or confidence. Another word for it is trust. Nontraditional people can and do have it also, and they might not use the word 'God' but might say, "Everything's okay."

With enough trust, there's a sense of even 'not trusting' being okay.

 

[Usehername]

The "feeling" is irrelevant to spirituality, IME. Don't fall for the Jesus is a white middle class republican way of experiencing spirituality. If there is a god that god transcends all cultures and races and generations. I think the charismatic experience is something to beware because it is not necessary to being religious or spiritual (like this musician who doesn't get those "feelings").

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6_txtZa3Yk"]Worth a listen[/YOUTUBE]

I would take “no” for an answer
Just to know I heard You speak
And I’m wonderin’ why I’ve never
Seen the signs they claim they see
Are the special revelations
Meant for everybody but me?
Maybe I don’t truly know You
Or maybe I just simply believe

‘Cause I can sniff, I can see
And I can count up pretty high
But these faculties aren’t getting me
Any closer to the sky
But my heart of faith keeps poundin’
So I know I’m doin’ fine
But sometimes finding You
Is just like trying to
Smell the color nine

Now I’ve never ‘felt the presence’
But I know You’re always near
And I’ve never ‘heard the calling’
But somehow You’ve led me right here
So I’m not looking for burning bushes
Or some divine graffiti to appear
I’m just beggin’ You for some wisdom
And I believe You’re puttin’ some here

‘Cause I can sniff, I can seek,
I can count up pretty high
But these faculties aren’t getting me
Any closer to the sky
But my heart of faith keeps poundin’
So I know I’m doin’ fine
But sometimes finding You
Is just like trying to
Smell the color nine

Smell the color nine?
But nine’s not a color
And even if it were you can’t smell a color
That’s my point exactly...

 

[Mole]

The God Delusion

"opiate of the masses" as one famous quote...

This is not a quotation but a lie to maintain the illusion.

Here is the quotation -

"Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions".

 

[lowtech redneck]

Have you checked out Unitarian Universalism yet? Its my understanding that its composed of spiritual seekers who lack faith in any specific religion, and find a sort of communion and comfort within a community of people like themselves.

Unitarian Universalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The lack of the "community" aspect of religion has never been a particular problem for me, so I've never felt compelled to investigate UUism any further, but I think I can understand where you're coming from: I was raised by a border-line fundamentalist mother who personifies the positive aspect of the old adage that "fundamentalist" Christianity makes good people (in terms of altruism) better and bad people worse. Even when I still had my childhood faith, I felt estranged from the religious experiences of others. I eventually became a Deist and then a reluctant agnostic, but my dislike for many crucial aspects of fundamentalist (or "traditional," for the Catholics and Orthodox out there) Christianity never took the form of antipathy towards religious people (including fundamentalist Christians) that seems all-too-common among my fellow "heathens."