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  1. #141
    Senior Member Iriohm's Avatar
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    Mar 2010

    Default RE2: whatever

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I overthink anything and everything if it crosses my mind... this is why I so desperatly want mental peace and quiet- my brain is EVIL
    Me too, admittedly. I've actually resorted to watching movies just to shut it up.
    "Quiiri ath metahn i'ashei?"
    Chronically Gephyrophobic

  2. #142
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Mar 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by Iriohm Bladewalker View Post
    Me too, admittedly. I've actually resorted to watching movies just to shut it up.
    It's not that difficult to stop your thoughts altogether. It only takes practice.

    Of course you don't want to stop your thoughts all the time, but turning your thoughts off for a while is relaxing and refreshing.

    A good place to start your practice is from the book, "Relief Without Drugs", by Ainslie Mears.

  3. #143
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Mar 2008


    Of course asking why doesn't God love me is tantamount to asking why Dad doesn't love me.

    Some say God is dead and some say God is Dad. I'm inclined to think God is Dad, after all, we call Him the Father.

    And when we are little we can't face the fact that our Dad may not love us for our survival depends on Dad's love.

    And so we repress our grief, fear and hatred in the interests of our survival and project them onto an imaginary Dad we call God.

    This is unbearably sad and so God becomes the heart in a heartless world.

    We do need help in experiencing our repressed grief, fear and hatred. And a good therapist like Alice Miller will help us on our way.

  4. #144
    Senior Member Ming's Avatar
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    Apr 2010


    Sometimes I think we think too much. God is there to love you (if you believe in him), so there's no need for him to worry if he loves you or not, because he just does.

    If you don't believe in it, then there is no God, so no worries.

    If you're sort of half way, then you have the gift of judgement and balance. Being able to be on both sides. You can argue that it may be a personal/earned gift, or a talent given by God.

    But really, sometimes you can just do what you like. If you're a non-believer, pray maybe to an 'invisible' God, even just a little. If you're a believer, sometimes just stress out and let people do things that actually embraces the idea of love, instead of forcing your own views. Eg, homosexual marriages.

  5. #145
    Digital ambition Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Jun 2008
    583 so/sp


    She's a TP; don't expect much Fi.

    And I don't.

    AO... I don't think you get my point


  6. #146
    Senior Member
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    Dec 2008


    I'll preface what will undoubtedly sound like a bunch of hippy good-feelery by saying that I do not accept feelings as a basis of proof for anything besides the fact that they exist. This conclusion accounts for emotions but it was reached through empirical thought and deductive reasoning. Also, I have a handful of tough empirical standards I've met which prove the performance and calibre of my own empirical thinking, lest you think I'm just another self-assured religious nut.

    Not only does God love you, but God is the very definition and source of love. He is all-loving. It is hard for us to understand because we are not capable of that much love. We often wonder things like "how can God be all-loving if His creation suffers?" or "how can God be totally perfect if sin was created as a result of something He did?"

    It seems like a contradiction, or at the very least a paradox! I considered these type of question for much of my life so far and the answer I came up with is mind-boggling: evil and sin is not something in itself, it is an un-something. We tend to polarize good and evil as if the two weigh each other out like a yin yang. In that false context it seems awfully unfair that we were created to suffer in sin and be punished in hell by default.

    However, having pondered these things I can only conclude that this doesn't make sense, because it is based on a premise of human (flawed) attitude and not an entirely perfect God. This "not my God" attitude is a human projection of intentions based on experiences with the authority figures in our life who tried to control and punish us without our best interests in mind. Jesus was our example of how a perfect human behaves and He was the very essence of understanding, healing, forgiveness, and self-sacrifice.

    God had no need to create us. That means that existence itself was created out of love, and in the beginning everything was created good. As they say, "If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, it's yours." God would not have been all-loving if He created us but enforced His will by controlling our choices. This is the part that is hard to understand... man was created entirely good and without sin, but God's love is so perfect that we were also given free will. Being made in God's image but not actually being God/omniscient implicates a certain degree of ignorance and being entirely innocent (without shame) we were easy deceived for we knew of no evil.

    Sin is not a thing in itself, but rather a shadow that fell as an inevitable result of God's perfection. Perfection is God, loving us completely (a role which He continually fulfills) and us loving Him completely. It is no surprise the first and most important commandment is to uphold our role in a perfect existence. Since God is uncompromisingly perfect, sin does not separate us from God (verb), sin is the separation itself, and hell is total separation. Since God is perfect, love, etc it follows that being totally separated from the very definition of good is... bad for us, which is why we suffer. God opposes the proud because being all-loving He knows this attitude is what keeps us from Him, and a state of total perfection... mutual perfect love, which I believe is what heaven consists of.

    If God is the source of life, a separation from God means death. Our own ignorance carried out through free will makes us imperfect and unfitting for God. The death and resurrection of Jesus is so absolutely vital because it showed how God remained totally fair but totally loving... it was essentially the flip of the sin=death equation, Jesus was totally perfect and so He did not deserve death, but He was sacrificed anyways. His resurrection proves that God did not create sin, and in fact He is so friggen amazing that He accounted for and overcame the shadow of His perfection. By fulfilling the necessary consequence of sin by the sheer goodness of someone who deserved no consequence, all of us who do deserve it get a chance at retribution, a chance to be cleaned of our self-inflicted imperfections thus allowing us to be with God.

    Hopefully this can start to help you understand how absolutely good and loving God is. Ponder, for a while, what the intentions of an omniscient omnipotent being would be, and you will start to see that our own idea of love, truth, and right and wrong is like a candle next to the sun. Absolute truth exists, and the uncomfortable truth is that every imperfection we suffer is by our own ignorance.

    Theologically, this is the only explanation that seems to fit! "How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?" - Sherlock Holmes

  7. #147
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    827 sp/so


    yeah... by security I meant mental security- more of having some structure as opposed to chaos, not necissarily the same type of security as being held close by someone you love... almost a point that you can retreat and focus on. Religious people seem to have their faith to focus in on that way... I have chaos, which isn't particularly comforting

    and usehername- I just want a feeling that I'm doing the right thing that can counter my tendancy to be super picky when it comes to beleiving something... kind of like when a person makes a decision and wants to feel that they made the right decision

    I identify in a way LTR- I like religious people even if they think there's something wrong with me at times I might have a problem with intolerant attitudes sometimes, but I don't hate the people... but yeah, I'm super extrovert, so community is a good thing in a way... not to mention the possibilities of networking with people (yes, evil ulterior motives as well! ) I'll have to check into UU churches as well... that's where my dad wants to go since he has to compromise with my mom and actually go to church on sundays

    ming- that sounds almost like God = Dog (I dogs!)

    lnl- somehow I have trouble beleiving in anyone perfect in a way... it's harder to identify with, because I'm certainly not perfect by any means A loving God is a good thing, a forgiving god is a delightful thing! But yeah, I can't really beleive in something I feel nothing about- even a feeling of rightness or excitement or something

    I know that's not what faith is supposed to be about- faith basically means taking a chance, but from the passionless approach what am I supposed to do- just draw a religion out of a hat and decide to go through the motions of that?

    it makes just as much sense to me really
    “The phrase 'Someone ought to do something' was not, by itself, a helpful one. People who used it never added the rider 'and that someone is me'.” - Terry Pratchett

  8. #148
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Jul 2007


    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    LL... oh no! I score equal on S and R on the Holland Code ... That does go along with my thought that there's one goal but many paths leading to it in religion though!

    and interesting thoughts on hell... I must think now!
    It is certainly possible to score equal S and R especially if neither of those codes is your primary one. However churches tend to be started almost universally by Social types, and it is rare that a Social type will also have a Realistic preference. Don't expect to find too many outdoorsie Pastors and Rabbis out there. That is probably why you have a hard time finding some religion where you feel like you fit in.

    (Also consider that schools, which are full of Social types tend to look down at Shop and Auto Mechanics as lesser classes. Even Jesus reached out to several blue collar fishermen, because these people were ignored by the established religion. I could go on and on, but it's no coincidence that Social types rarely mix with Realistic types.)
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)

  9. #149
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    594 sx/sp
    LII Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I WANT that feeling of security!
    It has ended up for me being different than what I had expected, growing up in the faith.

    God hasn't helped me avoid hard times, for example. Sometimes I can't tell if the world just goes as it goes and God isn't around, or if God is there and has a reason for letting things happen. (This is why I use the "Christian agnostic" appellation.... Christian describes my faith, agnostic describes my view of knowledge in this imperfect world. I have a faith that I choose to persist in, because I believe it's right or at least believe it is worthy of my sacrifice and thrust of my life; but I do not "know" in a way I can validate.)

    In terms of my faith, though, I feel like God has my back when no one else does, if that makes sense. Especially in the last few years, when I felt very betrayed by people I had loved. In the end (as it always does), it came down to me and God, and that had to be good enough.

    “Guess now who holds thee?”
    “Death,” I said. But there
    The silver answer rang
    “Not Death, but Love.”
    (Elizabeth Barrett Browning)
    My interactions with the Divine have changed how I orient myself to the world, even if it doesn't change the events themselves or the things I have to face. I've realized, after struggling with faith for years and years, that I fundamentally still orient myself in a hopeful way, believing that there is value in continuing to live, in following what I believe is right, and that there is strength I can tap into even when I do not feel strong enough to survive or when in some ways I feel conflicted.

    "Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things." That promise has played out true in my life, even in the dark.

    Quote Originally Posted by perfectgirl View Post
    It's hard to explain. I ventured out, a girl alone thousands of miles from my Texas home and faced my fears to work in the Silicon Valley. Those were some tough times right out of college and I remember standing on a beach at night in San Francisco and crying out to God if he could hear me and asking why he abandoned me there. I was feeling really overwhelmed, out of my Texas element, and alone. The wind off the Pacific ocean was so loud that even though I was shouting, I couldn't even hear my own words. At the time, I didn't believe that God was hearing them either. Looking back now I see how God was with me the whole time, he was right there and he carried me through it. I believe there was something greater than me that can't be explained that took me out of a few valleys. I survived my adventures, I'm stronger, wiser, and more successful because of it. This is why I say God has never failed me; it stands the test of time for me.
    I hear you. I have had many nights like that, calling out into the dark night sky and wondering what God was doing, if anything. At the time, it was just painful. But it did shape me; it was not the event itself, it was how I chose to orient myself to the event. (Did I use it make excuses, run, hide, give up? Or did I choose to face it, persevere, find the good in it?) I have trouble predicting what should happen or will happen in a situation, it's more a knowledge that I just need to be true to the heart that has been shaped in me, to let that shaping continue, and to not let fear and shame lead me into seclusion or hiding but keep engaging life even when I'm scared.

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever
    I know that's not what faith is supposed to be about- faith basically means taking a chance, but from the passionless approach what am I supposed to do- just draw a religion out of a hat and decide to go through the motions of that?
    You need to search for what seems most true to you and your values, honestly.

    Christianity resonates with me in a way that nothing else I have studied does. I find Zen Buddhism philosophically intriguing and honest in its main principles, but it doesn't inspire both insight and passion as Christianity has for me. Despite my arguments elsewhere on the forum, those things seem to be more about the practice and politics of the faith... not issues with the main concepts of the faith as I see it myself. It just fits best what I have come to see to be true in how people develop and interact with others. I can't speak for other people nor dictate to them what their road entails.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #150


    I have only one piece of advice.

    If there is a God, then the relative merits of various religions are irrelevant to your search, and shopping for one is a fool's errand. If there is a God, then your task is to seek out the God who Is... not what you want God to be, not what other people believe God to be, but the God who Is.

    I'm a firm believer in "Seek, and you will find." Pay no attention to traditions or creeds at this stage of the game. Either God is real or God is not real, and I believe that if God is real then he/she/it will respond to your honest search. You'll either make a connection or you won't. All else is window dressing.

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