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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    Maybe Abraham/Isaac was symbolic of what God as a father would do to his son for the sake of all humankind?
    C'mon, child abuse won't save us anymore than misogyny.

    And we are starting to grow out of a Bronze Age religion based on slavery, misogyny and child abuse.

    For in 1833 the House of Commons abolished institutional slavery for the first time in human history.

    And in 1904 women gained the national vote in Australia and New Zealand for the first time in human history.

    And in 1996 we started prosecuting child abuse in our Criminal Courts for the first time in human history.

  2. #42
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Hmm, I reckon that the expelling of the moneylenders with a whipwas more than paid for by the scourging at the pillar, dont you think?

    Its not anger BTW its wrath, although I'm not sure that tossing some tables and chasing people constitutes wrath really.

    As God's anointed, he had the right to chase them out of there. That's not sin, that's a God-given right.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    Not sure what you are saying here?
    Sorry, wasnt saying that your point was daft, was refering to the comparisons with Abraham.

    Even in the story of Abraham, I think its odd to focus on the child sacrifice angle so much, its also distinctly modern (possibly even post-modern) to make points about child abuse, surely the point is that the God of the hebrews doesnt require human sacrifices?
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    As God's anointed, he had the right to chase them out of there. That's not sin, that's a God-given right.
    Maybe, although considering even movies like 7 its pretty tame to be considered wrathful
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    that was my point... anger, wrath, throwing an amazing temper tantrum... any of those probably aren't on the New Testament God's List of Holy Virtues (now the old testament one... that's a bit more questionable )

    I just remember that because I heard an interesting sermon on Jesus understanding sin because he himself had even sinned, which was proof that repentant sinners could enter Heaven... that was one of the few times I actually paid attention when forced to go to church... it was a guest minister that sunday!
    You think that's good, what do you think of the story of the woman at the well in Mark? Jesus appears to be validating the traditional racial theory of election or choosen people to begin with, then he decides he will reward th woman's faith with a miracle.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Even in the story of Abraham, I think its odd to focus on the child sacrifice angle so much, its also distinctly modern (possibly even post-modern) to make points about child abuse, surely the point is that the God of the hebrews doesnt require human sacrifices?
    The Father demands human sacrifice of his Son.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    You should probably take that up with him when you see him. :rolli:
    I'll make sure to criticize Santa for having a foot fetish at that meeting as well
    “The phrase 'Someone ought to do something' was not, by itself, a helpful one. People who used it never added the rider 'and that someone is me'.” - Terry Pratchett

  8. #48
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Sorry, wasnt saying that your point was daft, was refering to the comparisons with Abraham.

    Even in the story of Abraham, I think its odd to focus on the child sacrifice angle so much, its also distinctly modern (possibly even post-modern) to make points about child abuse, surely the point is that the God of the hebrews doesnt require human sacrifices?
    Exodus chapter 21- God's standard of justice was "eye for eye, tooth for tooth...soul for soul". He didn't require human sacrifices because it was impossible for any ordinary human's life to satisfy what Adam lost. The animal sacrifices that were acceptible were for temporary forgiveness, and even those animals had to be relatively healthy and sound to be accepted.

    It was a test to Abraham's faithfulness. If you recall, Isaac was born to a 100year old Abraham and a 90 year old Sarah- a miracle birth. God asked Abraham to do it, and Abraham all but complied before he was stopped by God himself. But it also symbolizes the greater sacrifice later made by Jesus.

    Hope this is answering your question. To be honest I had to look at it a few times before I got it.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Maybe, although considering even movies like 7 its pretty tame to be considered wrathful
    God has wrath, is vengeful, and all of that, because he has the right to. He created us. We as humans are no better than our fellow man, and have no right to exercise that kind of judgement on people. Anger is a natural emotion but needed to be checked so that we don't kill or hurt people.

  10. #50
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    The Christ myth is a blood sacrifice in a time of slavery, misogyny and child abuse.

    Civilized countries are moving away from blood sacrifice, slavery, misogyny and child abuse.

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