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Tolerance

Chunes

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I was walking home today and I saw an interesting bumper sticker which I thought was rather ironic.

It stated: Tolerance. Believe in it.

And I thought—is tolerance really tolerance unless it tolerates intolerance?

What do you think? Is it possible to force tolerance onto a group of people with legislation and still consider it tolerance?

No, tolerance doesn't mean you have to like or endorse differing views, but it means you can't interfere with or disrespect them. That's the way I view tolerance. So when you frame intolerance itself as a philosophical position, to speak out against it is inherently intolerant.

Funny concept, huh? People who speak out against intolerance are themselves intolerant, since by speaking out, they fail to respect the opposing position, and ironically are unwittingly opposing themselves.
 

Totenkindly

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I agree with you if the "intolerance" is extreme and try to control the discourse, but otherwise they are just voicing their opinions, correct?

Incidentally: I usually have tried to approach it out of love, not tolerance per se.

With my family, for example, I've realized we really disagree on some substantial issues... but I had to be willing to let them hold and voice their own opinions and listen without freaking out on them. This was really hard because I felt like their views were erosive to my sense of self, but at the same time I've come to realize they have their own prerogative to believe whatever they think is right, and voice their opinion. At the same time, I have the right to reject it and challenge them / assert my own view.

I don't like the word "tolerance" because it stops too soon, at least in what meaning that particular word seems to convey to me. I feel like I have to go beyond it... to something more akin to "love."
 

disregard

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I don't know what that bumper sticker means, but it doesn't speak on tolerance's behalf.

Of course tolerance incorporates tolerating intolerance. That is when one really needs it.

Tolerance is using understanding, or gravitating away from ignorance, in order to live a more constructive life.
 
O

Oberon

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I think the premise of tolerance as a virtue has to be highly developed, even moderated, in anyone who pretends to a serious belief in ethics. Tolerance, if not balanced by some opposing principle, amounts to an unwillingness to judge any behavior regardless of its motivations or effects.

I would venture to say that contemporary users of the term "tolerance" don't really mean that; therefore we have to figure out in what ways the principle of tolerance should inform our thoughts, speech, and actions.
 

Chunes

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I agree with you if the "intolerance" is extreme and try to control the discourse, but otherwise they are just voicing their opinions, correct?

Yes. I would say it has a lot to do with how they frame their opinion.

Incidentally: I usually have tried to approach it out of love, not tolerance per se.

The distinction I see here is that love allows for "I'm doing this for your own good whether you believe in it or not" while tolerance does not. If I'm off-base feel free to correct me here. I'm not saying one method is better than another.

I don't like the word "tolerance" because it stops too soon, at least in what meaning that particular word seems to convey to me. I feel like I have to go beyond it... to something more akin to "love."
I certainly am not trying to imply that tolerance is the end-all be all stance to live by. I am however attempting to single it out, outside the context of any higher contexts it may be a part of, such as love.

disregard said:
I don't know what that bumper sticker means, but it doesn't speak on tolerance's behalf.

Of course tolerance incorporates tolerating intolerance. That is when one really needs it.

Tolerance is using understanding, or gravitating away from ignorance, in order to live a more constructive life.

I would agree with this. However, though this stance implies a certain involvement from the one doing the tolerating, I can see how the word could be construed to mean a deep level of indifference as well.

oberon said:
I think the premise of tolerance as a virtue has to be highly developed, even moderated, in anyone who pretends to a serious belief in ethics. Tolerance, if not balanced by some opposing principle, amounts to an unwillingness to judge any behavior regardless of its motivations or effects.

I would venture to say that contemporary users of the term "tolerance" don't really mean that; therefore we have to figure out in what ways the principle of tolerance should inform our thoughts, speech, and actions.

Very true. Complete tolerance in this 'pure' form of the word I'm using would result in what basically amounts to not being able to discern anything. Motivations and hence actions would disappear..

The mainstream meaning of tolerance is more like "Don't kill each other because of your religions please."
 

Beorn

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In this video Don Carson explains the difference between the modern view of tolerance as respect for individuals and the popular post-modern view of tolerance as respect for ideas.

He comes to the conclusion that "the new view of tolerance is not only inconsistent, it's incoherent, and proves, in fact, to be less tolerant than the brand of tolerance that was around under modernism. Because at the very point where it comes up with that which disagrees with it the most, it has to dismiss all opponents as intolerant and bigoted, and therefore becomes, in fact, totalitarian."

[YOUTUBE="9PVJlnvVeSM"]The Intolerance of Tolerance, Don Carson[/YOUTUBE]
 

niffer

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I totally agree with you OP.

Um, the thing is... just because you decide to "tolerate" somebody, by doing that you aren't making any promises to actually willingly understand their point of view, accept it, accept them as an equal to you, or treat them as well as you would treat those on the same side of the fence as you.

The only thing "tolerance" indoctrinates is that you don't go over and harm them directly.
 

LeafAndSky

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Funny concept, huh? People who speak out against intolerance are themselves intolerant, since by speaking out, they fail to respect the opposing position, and ironically are unwittingly opposing themselves.

Yes, it is a funny concept. I wonder if there's any such thing as human logic. Tolerance is just one of the more obvious examples.
 

Invisiblemonkey

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I would say no. The moment a belief is forced upon a person, it ceases to be belief and becomes nothing more than a means to oppression, often losing the original value of the belief in the process.
 
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