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What is the western equivalent of a Zen Master?

Lark

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I wonder about this, I recently talked to someone who about what they considered the gradual easternisation of the west, through lots of cultural imports, without hostility or anything, I love the same eastern cultural inroads and hope they continue.

However I dont think I can readily identify the western equivalents, magicians? Mystics? Scholars?
 

Amargith

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A volva, haegtessa or witch on spiritual/magical matters.

A gythia, druid or 'priest' on spiritual/religious matters.
 

ragashree

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What to you are the defining qualities of a Zen master? What are the standards you would want to judge the equivalence against?
 

ajblaise

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This is the closest we get.
 

ragashree

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This is the closest we get.

Way to miss the point :rolleyes:

I think it's a question worth taking a bit more seriously than that, though not an easy one to answer definitively, if there is indeed a definitive answer. At the moment I don't really know what qualities Lark would associate with a Zen master; without a clearer context there's not much point in me trying to make any definite suggestions, much though the subject interests me.

If it helps, I'm aware of a poster on this forum who regularly manifests a Zen- like approach. I have no idea whether this person actually has a philosophical committment to Zen or whether it's just their personality, however. I would suspect that either way they have a good understanding of the underlying principles of the philosophy.
 

Scott N Denver

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Way to miss the point :rolleyes:


If it helps, I'm aware of a poster on this forum who regularly manifests a Zen- like approach. I have no idea whether this person actually has a philosophical committment to Zen or whether it's just their personality, however. I would suspect that either way they have a good understanding of the underlying principles of the philosophy.

Ooh ooh ooh, let it be me, let it be me! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolli: :rolli: :wubbie:


Umm, a Navy SEAL???
 

ragashree

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I would, just to be generous. But you didn't put the right animal in your avatar.
 

Scott N Denver

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Scott, I knew I would find you in here ... :)

Yeah, I'm not predictable or anything... :whistling: :happy:

Note to self: working on being less predictable...

Back to the thread though, any takers on the Navy SEAL idea??? maybe a really good blacksmith or other such kind of artisan?
 

Mole

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I wonder about this, I recently talked to someone who about what they considered the gradual easternisation of the west, through lots of cultural imports, without hostility or anything, I love the same eastern cultural inroads and hope they continue.

However I dont think I can readily identify the western equivalents, magicians? Mystics? Scholars?

Traduttore, traditore - to translate it to betray. So to translate Eastern practice into the West is to betray it.

We can only be loyal to our own tradition. And our own tradition is mysticism. And my favourite mystic is Simone Weil (pronounced Vey).

Simone was the first female graduate from the Sorbonne and a mystic. And those who know her, love her.

Of course in the global village the West is moving East, and the West is moving East. And as we perceive by making distinctions, it is important we keep the distinction between East and West so that we can see one another clearly.
 

ragashree

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Yeah, I'm not predictable or anything... :whistling: :happy:

Note to self: working on being less predictable...

Back to the thread though, any takers on the Navy SEAL idea??? maybe a really good blacksmith or other such kind of artisan?

Why?
 

professor goodstain

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i would say a forest ranger could have the inherent discipline for that title. need a better idea of roughly what that is. perhaps a marathoner, even if s/he is not from the west.
 

Lark

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I suppose I could have said Taoist imortal or Taoist Monk but there were western monks and western saints could have the same miraculous powers as the Taoist imortals, I mean it in the historical and philosophical senses I suppose, possibly, or maybe even the function too.
 

ragashree

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i would say a forest ranger could have the inherent discipline for that title. need a better idea of roughly what that is. perhaps a marathoner, even if s/he is not from the west.

:confused:

Some, umm, interesting suggestions accruing here. I'm begining to wonder if anyone knows what Zen actually is... Oh well, keep 'em coming!

*where the hell is Wildcat when you need him?*

Edit:
I suppose I could have said Taoist imortal or Taoist Monk but there were western monks and western saints could have the same miraculous powers as the Taoist imortals, I mean it in the historical and philosophical senses I suppose, possibly, or maybe even the function too.

If I'm understanding your position correctly, Victor may be on the right track when referring to mysticism; you seem to be looking at several different aspects of the many possible, with cultural role and philosophical similarity being the most important. The first example that springs to mind as something directly comparable is not exactly Western, but the Sufi tradition of Islam. The tendency of Christianity to rely on scripture and dogma, and the somewhat different (ie penitential) purpose of asceticism, together with the complete domination of Christianity over western culture until very recently, makes it very difficult for me to think of anything to really compare. It seems a little too facile to simply lump monastic ascetics and mystics together as a rough equivalent when there are so many differences in outlook. I might have a think about it though.

The Quaker movement is actually rather similar in many ways - I think it's entirely possible to be simultaneously a Quaker and a Zen buddhist with no real contradiction of philosophy or practice (though the underlying beliefs are different in some respects, of course), and Quakerism has had quite a strong historical influence on our culture despite its relatively small membership. It's the best I can come up with right now.
 

Lark

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:confused:

Some, umm, interesting suggestions accruing here. I'm begining to wonder if anyone knows what Zen actually is... Oh well, keep 'em coming!



*where the hell is Wildcat when you need him?*

Oh wait, you're not one of those people who is bursting to tell everyone you know more than them? :laugh: :laugh:
 

ragashree

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Oh wait, you're not one of those people who is bursting to tell everyone you know more than them? :laugh: :laugh:

I know I know nuttin' much. But at least I know what I don't know, as opposed to those who don't know what they don't know, and therefore think they know. :smoke:
 

nolla

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What is the western equivalent of a Zen Master?

Good question. I am imagining a grandmother of the old times. Sitting in a rocking chair knitting. Yeah, I know it isn't exactly perfect...
 
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