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What is the western equivalent of a Zen Master?

Nonsensical

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pardon me while I digress slightly from the main topic---

spirituality and religion are separate. I think that's what Victor is trying to say.

My problem with religion is that it focuses and is now being founded on the more social aspects of a church organization, instead of the spiritual. A ton of churches I have seen, read about, and been too are comparable to corporations where the prime focus has become about the building of playgrounds, money regulation, and blah blah blah that is all earthly business that should be left at the door on a sunday morning. It's like the body of religion has become more about social interactions and cooperation towards the actual regulation of the church itself almost like a business.

and it's plain to see that this is all completely separate from spirituality. that's your business, not anyone else's.
 

LeafAndSky

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'Spirituality' is a New Age word that replaces the word 'religion'.

So the word 'spirituality' is politicly correct.

In fact 'spirituality' is a weasel word.

It is a word that places conformity above the inner life.

And I find my inner life is a bubbling spring of delight that wants nothing less than spontaneity.

I didn't know the word 'spirituality' was PC. A lot of times I'll write 'spirituality/metaphysics/religion/philosophy' instead of 'spirituality', but I used the shorthand version this time.

It's hard to find a joint vocabulary to use with someone else until you know them better. For instance, if I'd asked, What is your own inner life like?, there are some people I know who would respond, "What difference is there between inner life and outer life? There's just life."

That word 'delight' -- I like that a lot. Spontaneity also. I think I became more spontaneous lately (not that I was ever that unspontaneous) by being around someone who's extremely so. It feels good, very right.
 

Mole

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I became more spontaneous lately (not that I was ever that unspontaneous) by being around someone who's extremely so. It feels good, very right.

If you are a damaged person, your spontaneity will be damaging.

But if you have been nourished, your spontaneity will be nourishing.
 

Mole

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spirituality and religion are separate. I think that's what Victor is trying to say.

I am saying that the word 'spirituality' has been manufactured by the bien pensant to replace the word 'religion'.

The word 'religion' is now uncool, and the word 'spirituality' is now cool.
 

Mole

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Social Justice and Individual Salvation

My problem with religion is that it focuses and is now being founded on the more social aspects of a church organization, instead of the spiritual. A ton of churches I have seen, read about, and been too are comparable to corporations where the prime focus has become about the building of playgrounds, money regulation, and blah blah blah that is all earthly business that should be left at the door on a sunday morning. It's like the body of religion has become more about social interactions and cooperation towards the actual regulation of the church itself almost like a business.

and it's plain to see that this is all completely separate from spirituality. that's your business, not anyone else's.

Protestantism believes in individual salvation.

Whereas Catholicism believes in the salvation of the community - the Communion of Saints.

So Protestants say, salvation is your business, not anyone else's.

While Catholics call for social justice.
 

Halla74

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I wonder about this, I recently talked to someone who about what they considered the gradual easternisation of the west, through lots of cultural imports, without hostility or anything, I love the same eastern cultural inroads and hope they continue.

However I dont think I can readily identify the western equivalents, magicians? Mystics? Scholars?

DJs! :party2:
 

sLiPpY

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pardon me while I digress slightly from the main topic---

spirituality and religion are separate. I think that's what Victor is trying to say.

My problem with religion is that it focuses and is now being founded on the more social aspects of a church organization, instead of the spiritual. A ton of churches I have seen, read about, and been too are comparable to corporations where the prime focus has become about the building of playgrounds, money regulation, and blah blah blah that is all earthly business that should be left at the door on a sunday morning. It's like the body of religion has become more about social interactions and cooperation towards the actual regulation of the church itself almost like a business.

and it's plain to see that this is all completely separate from spirituality. that's your business, not anyone else's.

A church is a business: 1. They're selling a product. 2. The product generates income for the employees. 3. The church requires assets to sell the product. 4. The product requires a balance sheet.
 

LeafAndSky

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I am saying that the word 'spirituality' has been manufactured by the bien pensant to replace the word 'religion'.

The word 'religion' is now uncool, and the word 'spirituality' is now cool.

I think we need a new word. The word 'spirituality' [spirit, breath, wind] is often met with "Huh?" or "I don't know what you mean by that word." May I suggest . . . oh let's see . . . viewpointness . . . eyepoint . . . brainpoint . . .

What is your brainpoint?

What parameterism do you hold?

Do you follow a particular filternity?
 

Mole

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I think we need a new word. The word 'spirituality' [spirit, breath, wind] is often met with "Huh?" or "I don't know what you mean by that word." May I suggest . . . oh let's see . . . viewpointness . . . eyepoint . . . brainpoint . . .

What is your brainpoint?

What parameterism do you hold?

Do you follow a particular filternity?

I think the church is in bad odour while the New Age is bright and new.

And I think you have demonstrated there is no point in looking for a new word.

But I do think that if we look into our hearts, new words will emerge.

They are just waiting to be born, little angels waiting to trip across our lips to sit on our shoulder and whisper in our ear. And they will whisper the new word. Whatever could it be?
 

LeafAndSky

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I think the church is in bad odour while the New Age is bright and new.

And I think you have demonstrated there is no point in looking for a new word.

But I do think that if we look into our hearts, new words will emerge.

They are just waiting to be born, little angels waiting to trip across our lips to sit on our shoulder and whisper in our ear. And they will whisper the new word. Whatever could it




be?

^
 

Lark

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You know I'm beginning to suspect that the equivalent category could be "saint"
 
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